§979ΑΘ. καὶ μέχρι μὲν τούτων τε καὶ ἐν τούτοις σύμπαν τὸ δυνατὸν τῶν ζῴων μάλα ἀριθμητικὸν γέγονε, τὸ καθʼ ἓν αὐτὸ σκοποῦν·
ATHENIAN: And up to these things and within them, the whole possible class of animals became highly capable of arithmetic, when observing each thing itself individually.
τὸ δὲ πρὸς ἄλληλα πάντα ἀριθμὸν ἀεὶ λογίζεσθαι, δοκῶ μὲν μείζονος ἕνεκα, καὶ τούτου δὲ σελήνην, καθάπερ εἴπομεν, αὐξανομένην καὶ φθίνουσαν ἐμποιήσας, μῆνας πρὸς τὸν ἐνιαυτὸν συνεστήσατο, καὶ πάντα ἀριθμὸν πρὸς ἀριθμὸν ἤρξατο συνορᾶν εὐδαίμονι τύχῃ.
But as for calculating always all numbers in relation to one another, I think that this was for the sake of a greater purpose, and for this reason, having created the moon, as we said, waxing and waning, he established months in relation to the year, and began to make them observe every number in relation to number, by happy fortune.
διὰ δὲ ταῦθʼ ἡμῖν καρποί τε καὶ ἐγκύμων ἡ γῆ γέγονεν, ὥστʼ εἶναι τροφὴν πᾶσι τοῖς ζῴοις, ἀνέμων τε καὶ ὑετῶν γιγνομένων οὐκ ἐξαισίων οὐδὲ ἀμέτρων·
And because of these things, our crops and the pregnant earth have come to be, so that there is food for all animals, with winds and rains occurring that are neither excessive nor immeasurable.
ἀλλʼ εἴ τι παρὰ ταῦτα γίγνεται πρὸς τὸ φλαῦρον, οὐ τὴν θείαν ἀλλὰ τὴν ἀνθρωπίνην αἰτιᾶσθαι χρὴ φύσιν, οὐκ ἐν δίκῃ διανέμουσαν τὸν αὑτῶν βίον.
But if anything happens contrary to these towards the worse, one must blame not the divine nature but human nature, which does not distribute their own life in justice.
ἡμῖν δʼ οὖν ζητοῦσιν περὶ νόμων σχεδὸν ἔδοξεν τὰ μὲν ἄλλα ῥᾴδιά τʼ εἶναι γνῶναι τὰ βέλτιστα ἀνθρώποις, καὶ πᾶς ἂν ἱκανὸς γίγνεσθαι καὶ συνεῖναι τὰ λεγόμενα καὶ ποιεῖν, εἰ γνοίη τί ποτʼ ἔστιν ὃ συμφέρειν εἰκὸς καὶ τί τὸ μὴ συμφέρον·
At any rate, to us who are searching concerning laws, it seemed that the other things were easy to know what is best for humans, and that everyone would be capable both of understanding what is said and doing it, if one knew what it is that is likely to be beneficial and what is not beneficial.
ἔδοξε δὴ καὶ νῦν ἔτι δοκεῖ τὰ μὲν ἄλλα ἐπιτηδεύματα πάντα οὐ σφόδρα χαλεπὰ εἶναι, τὸ δὲ τίνα τρόπον χρὴ γίγνεσθαι χρηστοὺς ἀνθρώπους παγχάλεπον.
It seemed indeed, and even now still seems, that all other practices are not very difficult, but how human beings must become good is extremely difficult.
καὶ τὰ μὲν ἄλλα αὖ πάντα κτᾶσθαι χρηστά, τὸ λεγόμενόν, καὶ δυνατὸν καὶ οὐ χαλεπόν, οὐσίαν τε ὅσην δεῖ καὶ μὴ δεῖ, καὶ σῶμα οἷόν τε δεῖ καὶ μή·
And again, to acquire all other good things, as the saying goes, is both possible and not difficult—wealth as much as is necessary and not, and body as is necessary and not.
καὶ ψυχὴν ὅτι μὲν ἀγαθὴν δεῖ, συγχωρεῖ πᾶς παντί, τὸ δʼ ὅντινα τρόπον ἀγαθήν, ὅτι μὲν αὖ δικαίαν καὶ σώφρονα καὶ ἀνδρείαν, καὶ ταῦτα, ὅτι δὲ σοφήν, φησὶ μὲν πᾶς δεῖν, ἥντινα δὲ σοφίαν, ὡς ἄρτι διεληλύθαμεν, οὐδεὶς οὐδενὶ τὸ παράπαν ἔτι συνομολογεῖ τῶν πολλῶν.
And everyone agrees with everyone that the soul must be good, but in what way it is good—that it must be just, temperate, and courageous, they agree on these too—but that it must be wise, everyone says it must be, but what kind of wisdom, as we have just gone through, no one among the many agrees with anyone at all anymore.
νῦν οὖν δὴ παρὰ πάσας τὰς πρόσθεν σοφίας οὐ φαύλην τινὰ ἀνευρίσκομεν εἰς αὐτά γε ταῦτα, τὸ δοκεῖν σοφὸν εἶναι τόν γε μεμαθηκότα ἅπερ καὶ διεληλύθαμεν· εἰ δʼ ἔστιν σοφὸς ὁ ταῦτʼ ἐπιστήμων καὶ ἀγαθός, τούτου δὴ πέρι λόγον δεῖ λαβεῖν.
So now, besides all the previous wisdoms, we find one that is not trivial for these very things, namely, that the one who has learned the very things we have gone through seems to be wise; but whether the one who is knowledgeable in these things is wise and good, about this we must hold a discussion.
ΚΛ. ὦ ξένε, ὡς εἰκότως εἶπες ὅτι περὶ μεγάλων μεγάλα ἐπιχειρεῖς φράζειν.
CLINIAS: O stranger, how reasonably you said that you are attempting to speak of great things concerning great matters.
ΑΘ. οὐ γὰρ σμικρά, ὦ Κλεινία· τὸ δὲ χαλεπώτερον, ὅτι παντάπασι καὶ πάντως ἀληθῆ.
ATHENIAN: For they are not small, Clinias; but what is more difficult is that they are entirely and in every way true.
ΚΛ. σφόδρα γε, ὦ ξένε· ἀλλʼ ὅμως μὴ ἀποκάμῃς λέγων ὃ φῄς.
CLINIAS: Very much so, stranger; but nevertheless, do not grow weary of saying what you say.
ΑΘ. ναί, μηδὲ σφὼ τοίνυν ἀκούοντε.
ATHENIAN: Yes, and neither of you then in listening.
ΚΛ. ταῦτʼ ἔσται· καὶ ὑπὲρ ἀμφοῖν ἐγώ σοι φράζω.
CLINIAS: This shall be so; and on behalf of both of us, I tell you this.
§980ΑΘ. καλῶς.
ATHENIAN: Good.
ἐξ ἀρχῆς δὴ ῥητέον ἀνάγκῃ πρῶτον, ὡς φαίνεται, μάλιστα μὲν ἄν, εἰ δυνάμεθα ἑνὶ λαβεῖν ὀνόματι, τίς ἐστιν ἣν οἰόμεθα σοφίαν εἶναι, τοῦτο δʼ εἰ σφόδρα ἀδυνατοῦμεν, τὸ δεύτερον, τίνες εἰσίν ποτε καὶ ὁπόσαι τινές, ἅς τις λαβὼν σοφὸς ἂν εἴη κατὰ τὸν ἡμέτερον μῦθον.
We must speak from the beginning, of necessity first, as it seems, most of all indeed, if we can grasp in a single name, what that is which we think is wisdom; but if we are completely unable to do this, secondly, what they are and how many they are, which someone having grasped would be wise according to our story.
ΚΛ. λέγοις ἄν.
CLINIAS: You may speak.
ΑΘ. τὸ δὴ μετὰ τοῦτο ἀνεμέσητον τῷ νομοθέτῃ τὸ κάλλιον τῶν πρότερον εἰρημένων περὶ θεῶν καὶ ἄμεινον ἀπεικάζοντι λέγειν, οἷον παιδιᾷ καλῇ χρωμένῳ καὶ τιμῶντι θεούς, ὕμνοις τε καὶ εὐδαιμονίᾳ γεραίροντι διάγειν τὸν αὑτοῦ βίον.
ATHENIAN: The next thing then is that it is not blameworthy for the legislator to speak by representing the gods more beautifully and better than those spoken of before, as if using a beautiful play and honoring the gods, and spending his own life celebrating them with hymns and happiness.
ΚΛ. ἦ καλῶς, ὦ ξένε, λέγεις.
CLINIAS: Well indeed do you speak, stranger.
εἰ γάρ σοι τοῦτο τέλος εἴη τῶν νόμων, θεοὺς προσπαίσαντι καθαρώτερον δὲ διαγαγόντι τὸν βίον τῆς ἅμα τελευτῆς ἀρίστης τε καὶ καλλίστης τυχεῖν.
For if this should be the end of your laws, having played with the gods and having led a purer life, to meet with the best and most beautiful end at the same time.
ΑΘ. πῶς οὖν, ὦ Κλεινία, λέγομεν;
ATHENIAN: How then, Clinias, do we speak?
ἦ δοκεῖ τοὺς θεοὺς ὑμνοῦντες σφόδρα τιμῶμεν, εὐχόμενοι τὰ κάλλιστα καὶ ἄριστα περὶ αὐτῶν ἐπιέναι λέγειν ἡμῖν;
Do we, when hymning the gods, honor them exceedingly, praying that the most beautiful and best things concerning them may come to us to speak?
οὕτως ἢ πῶς λέγεις;
Is it so, or how do you say?
ΚΛ. θαυμαστῶς μὲν οὖν οὕτως.
CLINIAS: Wonderfully so, indeed.
ἀλλʼ, ὦ δαιμόνιε, πιστεύσας τοῖς θεοῖς εὔχου τε καὶ λέγε τὸν ἐπιόντα σοι λόγον τῶν καλῶν περὶ τοὺς θεούς τε καὶ τὰς θεάς.
But, my good man, trusting in the gods, pray and speak the discourse concerning the gods and goddesses that comes to you from among the beautiful things.
ΑΘ. ἔσται ταῦτα, ἂν αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς ἡμῖν ὑφηγῆται.
ATHENIAN: This shall be, if the god himself guides us.
συνεύχου μόνον.
Only pray with me.
ΚΛ. λέγοις ἂν τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο.
CLINIAS: You may speak what follows.
ΑΘ. θεογονίαν τοίνυν καὶ ζῳογονίαν ἀναγκαῖον, ὡς ἔοικεν, πρῶτόν μοι, κακῶς ἀπεικασάντων τῶν ἔμπροσθεν, βέλτιον ἀπεικάσαι κατὰ τὸν ἔμπροσθεν λόγον, ἀναλαβόντα ὃν πρὸς τοὺς ἀσεβεῖς ἐπικεχείρηκα λέγων, φράζων ὡς εἰσὶν θεοὶ ἐπιμελούμενοι πάντων, σμικρῶν καὶ μειζόνων, καὶ σχεδὸν ἀπαραμύθητοι τῶν περὶ τὰ δίκαιά εἰσιν πράγματα— εἰ δὴ μέμνησθέ γε, ὦ Κλεινία· ἐλάβετε μὲν γὰρ δὴ καὶ ὑπομνήματα—καὶ γὰρ ἦν τὰ ῥηθέντα τότε καὶ μάλα ἀληθῆ·
ATHENIAN: It is necessary then, as it seems, for me first to represent the generation of the gods and the generation of animals better, since those before represented them badly, according to the former discourse, taking up what I attempted to say to the impious, explaining that there are gods who care for all things, small and great, and that they are almost implacable in matters concerning justice—if indeed you remember, Clinias; for you did receive memories—and indeed what was said then was very true.
τόδε δὲ αὐτῶν ἦν τὸ μέγιστον, ὅτι πρεσβύτερον εἴη ψυχὴ σώματος ἅπασα παντός—ἆρα μέμνησθε;
And this was the greatest of them, that soul is older than all body of every kind—do you remember?
ἢ πάντως που τοῦτό γε; —ὃ γὰρ ἄμεινον καὶ παλαιότερον καὶ θεοειδέστερον, πιθανὸν ὅτι τοῦ νέου καὶ νεωτέρου καὶ ἀτιμοτέρου, πανταχῇ τε ἄρχον ἀρχομένου πρεσβύτερον καὶ ἄγον ἀγομένου πάντῃ.
Or surely you remember this at least? —for it is reasonable that what is better, older, and more godlike is older than the new, younger, and less honored, and in every way ruling over the ruled, and leading the led in every way.
λάβωμεν δὴ τοῦτό γε, ὡς ψυχὴ πρεσβύτερόν ἐστι σώματος.
Let us grasp this at least, that soul is older than body.