§454μέρει μικρῷ πάντα τἀκείνων ἐξεληλέγχθαι, καὶ τοὺς μὲν ἐν ἡλικίᾳ τεθνάναι πάντας, τὴν πόλιν δὲ εἰλῆφθαι, καὶ ταῦτα ἀτείχιστον οὖσαν, παῖδάς τε καὶ γυναῖκας ἄγεσθαι, διαπεπρᾶχθαι δὲ, ὡς εἰπεῖν, τὸ πρᾶγμα πρὶν ἐλθεῖν εἰς βουλὴν καὶ λόγον;
What is to prevent, in a single day, and in a small part [of that day], all their fortunes from being thoroughly tested and ruined, and all those of military age from being dead, and the city captured—especially as it is unfortified—and children and women carried off, and the whole matter, so to speak, dispatched before coming to council or debate?
ἐπεὶ καὶ νῦν ἐπὶ τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ δή που καλοῦσιν ὑμᾶς Θηβαῖοι, ὥστε συνανελεῖν αὐτούς.
For indeed, even now, it is for this very purpose, presumably, that the Thebans are calling upon you, so that you may join them in destroying them.
ἐπὶ τί γὰρ καὶ φῇ τις ἕτερον, ὅπου περὶ τῆς πόλεως αὐτῆς ὁ λόγος γέγονε;
For for what other purpose could anyone say they call, when the debate has become about the city itself?
δεῖ τοίνυν ἤδη βεβουλεῦσθαι καὶ μὴ περιμένειν τὰ μηδαμοῦ γενησόμενα.
We must, therefore, have already made our decision, and not wait for what will never happen.
νὴ Δίʼ ἄπιστοι γὰρ Θηβαίοις δόξομεν εἶναι μὴ βοηθήσαντες. πολὺ δέ γε μᾶλλον, ἂν βοηθήσαντες μὴ ποιῶμεν ἐφʼ οἷς παρελήφθημεν.
"By Zeus, we shall seem untrustworthy to the Thebans if we do not help." But much more so, if, having helped, we do not do that for which we were received.
τί οὖν κωλύει, ταῦτα ἂν ἐκείνοις δοκῇ, συναινεῖν;
What, then, prevents us from agreeing to these things, if they seem good to them?
οἷόν τι λέγω, κατασκάπτειν τὴν πόλιν, ἀνδραποδίζεσθαι, παῖδας καὶ γυναῖκας ἀποκτιννύναι πάντας.
I mean such things as rasing the city, enslaving the people, and killing all the children and women.
ἐπὶ γὰρ ταῦτα καλοῦσι.
For it is for these things that they call us.
θήσω τοίνυν ἐγὼ καὶ μενεῖν ἡμᾶς τὸ πρᾶγμα καὶ μὴ φθάσειν προδιαφθαρέντας ἐκείνους, καὶ ψῆφον προτεθήσεσθαι, ὥσπερ ἀναγκαίᾳ τινὶ περιόδῳ τοῦτο ὀφειλόμενον τοῖς πολεμίοις ἅπασιν·
I will therefore assume that the matter will wait for us, and that they will not have perished beforehand, and that a vote will be proposed, as though this were due to all enemies in some necessary cycle of fortune.
ἂν οὖν ἡμῶν σώζειν τοὺς Λακεδαιμονίους τιθεμένων ψῆφον μὴ πείθωνται, μηδὲ συγχωρῶσιν οἱ Θηβαῖοι, τοῦτο δʼ οὐδὲ ἀποδείξεως δεῖται, ἆρα ἄλλο τι λοιπὸν ἔσται ἢ διεστάναι καὶ δυσχερῶς ἔχειν;
If, then, when we propose to save the Lacedaemonians, the Thebans are not persuaded and do not agree—and this needs no proof—will there be anything left but to stand apart and be on bad terms?
οὐκοῦν ἀρχὴ πολέμου καὶ πραγμάτων αὕτη, Λακεδαιμόνιοι δʼ ἢ προαπολώλασιν, ἐὰν τὰ Θηβαίων νικᾷ, ἢ μενοῦσι τὴν τοῦ πολέμου κρίσιν, ἂν ἐξελέσθαι δυνηθῶμεν αὐτούς.
This, then, will be the beginning of war and trouble; and the Lacedaemonians will either have perished beforehand, if the Thebans' cause prevails, or they will await the decision of the war, if we are able to rescue them.
ἀνάγκη γὰρ ἢ παθόντων τι παρὰ γνώμην τὴν ἡμετέραν ἡμᾶς ἐπὶ τοὺς Θηβαίους ἔρχεσθαι, ἢ διατηρηθέντων ὑφʼ ἡμῶν, τούτους ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς ὑπʼ ὀργῆς ἰέναι.
For it is necessary either that, if they suffer something contrary to our judgment, we must go against the Thebans, or that, if they are preserved by us, the Thebans will come against us in anger.
πότερʼ οὖν βέλτιον ὑπὲρ τῆς σκιᾶς τῆς Λακεδαιμονίων ὕστερον πολεμεῖν Θηβαίοις ἢ κοινωνεῖν ἡμῖν μὴ δυναμένων, ἢ παντελῶς ἀπολωλότων, ἢ τὸν ὀρθὸν καὶ γενναῖον πόλεμον πολεμεῖν ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν, ἕως εἰσὶν ἔτι σῶοι;
Which, then, is better: to fight the Thebans later for the shadow of the Lacedaemonians, when they are no longer able to join us or are utterly destroyed, or to fight the just and noble war on their behalf while they are still safe?
ἐγὼ μὲν οἶμαι τοῦτο.
I, indeed, think the latter.
εἰ δὲ μὴ τῆς αὐτῆς τύχης ἧσπερ ἡμεῖς πεπείρανται, τοῦτο καὶ μάλιστα ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν ἐστιν.
And if they have not experienced the same fortune as we have, this is especially to your advantage.
ὅτι μὲν γὰρ εἰς πολὺ χείρω βουληθέντων ὑμῶν ἥξουσιν ἅπασι δέδεικται· §455κωλύσαντες δὲ ὑμεῖς τὴν μὲν τιμωρίαν εἰληφέναι τῷ βουληθέντες ἂν δυνηθῆναι ῥᾳδίως, τὴν μεγαλοψυχίαν δὲ ἐνδεδεῖχθαι τῷ μὴ δεδεῆσθαι δόξετε·
For that they will fall into a much worse state if you wish it, has been demonstrated to everyone; but if you prevent it, you will seem to have taken vengeance by the fact that you could easily have done so had you wished, and to have displayed magnanimity by not having needed it.
ὥστʼ ἀνθʼ ἑνὸς ἀμφότερʼ ἕξετε, καὶ τὴν τιμωρίαν καὶ τὸ πρᾶοι δοκεῖν εἶναι, τοῦτο δὴ τὸ ἐξ ἀρχῆς ὑμέτερον.
Thus, instead of one, you will have both: the vengeance and the reputation for being merciful, which has indeed been yours from the beginning.
καὶ μὴν ὅτι γε, ὦ Ἀθηναῖοι, καὶ πολλῷ δεινότερά εἰσι πεπονθότες ὧν ὑμᾶς εἰργάσαντο αὐτοί ποτε ῥᾳδίως δείξω.
And indeed, Athenians, I will easily show that they have suffered much more terrible things than those which they once did to you.
ἡμεῖς μέν γε ποιοῦντες καὶ πάσχοντες ὡς εἰπεῖν διεγενόμεθα ἐν πολλοῖς ἀγῶσι καὶ μάχαις κακῶς ἀλλήλους, οἱ δὲ μιᾷ κρατηθέντες πάντων ἀφεστᾶσι.
For we, indeed, survived by doing and suffering harm to one another, so to speak, in many contests and battles, whereas they, having been conquered in a single battle, have fallen away from everything.
δῆλον τοίνυν κἀκεῖθεν· ἡμᾶς μὲν γὰρ τῆς κατὰ θάλατταν ἡγεμονίας ἀπεστέρησαν, αὐτοὶ δʼ ἀμφότερα σχόντες προεῖνται νῦν.
This is clear also from the following: they deprived us of the hegemony of the sea, but they themselves, having held both, have now lost them.
ὥστʼ εἰ τὸ πλειόνων στέρεσθαι μείζονός ἐστι συμφορᾶς δεῖγμα, μείζων ἐστὶν ἡ νῦν Λακεδαιμονίων τῆς πρότερον ἡμᾶς περιστάσης.
So that if to be deprived of more is a sign of greater misfortune, the present misfortune of the Lacedaemonians is greater than that which formerly surrounded us.
οὐ τοίνυν οὐδὲ τὴν τάξιν τῆς συμμαχίας τῆς πρὸς τοὺς Θηβαίους ἐπινοῶ.
Nor, indeed, can I accept the position of alliance with the Thebans.
προεστᾶσι μὲν γὰρ, ὡς ὁρᾶτε, αὐτοὶ τοῦ πολέμου, δέονται δʼ ὑμῶν ἐν προσθήκης μέρει.
For they themselves, as you see, lead the war, and they need you as a mere addition.
τὸ μὲν τοίνυν ἐκείνοις συγχωρεῖν ἡγεῖσθαι αὐτοὶ κρίνατε ὁποῖόν τί ποτʼ ἐστὶν ὑμῖν, μνημονεύοντες τοῦ τροπαίου, ὅ ποτʼ ἐστήσατε ἐν Οἰνοφύτοις·
You yourselves, then, judge what sort of thing it is for you to concede the leadership to them, remembering the trophy you once set up at Oenophyta.
τὸ δʼ αὐτοὺς ἀξιοῦν προΐστασθαι μὴ ἀγνωμοσύνη σαφὴς ᾖ.
But to demand that we ourselves should lead might be clear folly.
τὸ γὰρ κληθέντας ὑπʼ ἐκείνων, κἀκείνων τῶν τὰ μέγιστα ἐξειργασμένων ὄντων ἀμφισβητεῖν περὶ τῆς προστασίας οὐκ ἔξω ταύτης τῆς αἰτίας εἶναι δόξει.
For to dispute about the leadership when we have been called by them, and when they are the ones who have achieved the greatest things, will seem not to be free from this charge.
τοὺς δʼ ἐπειγομένους καταπολεμῆσαι τοὺς Λακεδαιμονίους καὶ μὴ δεῖν ἀνεῖναι λέγοντας τοῦτʼ ἐρωτῆσαι βούλομαι, ἂν μὴ διδῶσι τὴν ἡγεμονίαν ἡμῖν οἱ Θηβαῖοι, κελεύετε συμμαχεῖν αὐτοῖς ἐν ὑπηκόων τάξει;
And those who are eager to conquer the Lacedaemonians and say we must not let go, I wish to ask them this: if the Thebans do not give us the leadership, do you bid us ally with them in the rank of subjects?
νὴ Δίʼ ἀλλὰ δώσουσιν. οὐχ οὗτοί γε, ἕως ἂν ὁρῶσι τὰς Λακεδαιμονίων ἀσπίδας παρʼ αὑτοῖς κρεμαμένας.
"By Zeus, they will give it." Not they, as long as they see the shields of the Lacedaemonians hanging in their homes.
εἰ δʼ ἐπʼ ἀμφότερα ἔστʼ εἰκάσαι, πόθεν καὶ πῶς τἀκριβὲς εἰσόμεθα;
But if we can conjecture both ways, whence and how shall we know the truth?
διδόντων μὲν γὰρ ὡς οὐδὲν μᾶλλον χρὴ τούτοις πολεμεῖν ἔστʼ εἰπεῖν, οὐ συγχωρούντων δὲ τίς ἂν φαίη δεῖν ἀνέχεσθαι;
For if they give it, one can say that we must no more fight against them; but if they do not agree, who would say we ought to endure it?
ἂν οὖν ἡμῖν συμβῇ κρῖναι μὲν τοῖς Θηβαίοις προσθέσθαι, γενομένης δʼ ἧς λέγω διαφορᾶς διαστῆναι, ἆρα ἄλλο τι συμβεβηκὸς ἔσται ἢ καὶ τούτους περιεορακέναι, καὶ πρὸς ἐκείνους ἐν προσκρούσμασι καὶ μέμψεσιν εἶναι, καὶ μήτʼ ἐπὶ τούτους
If, then, it should happen that we decide to join the Thebans, but we part ways because of the difference of which I speak, will there be any other result than that we have both overlooked these men and are in conflict and blame with those, and neither against these