§7.8ἐπεὶ δὲ ὑπό τινός τε γίγνεται τὸ γιγνόμενον (τοῦτο δὲ λέγω ὅθεν ἡ ἀρχὴ τῆς γενέσεώς ἐστι) καὶ ἔκ τινος (ἔστω δὲ μὴ ἡ στέρησις τοῦτο ἀλλʼ ἡ ὕλη· ἤδη γὰρ διώρισται ὃν τρόπον τοῦτο λέγομεν) καὶ τὶ γίγνεται (τοῦτο δʼ ἐστὶν ἢ σφαῖρα ἢ κύκλος ἢ ὅ τι ἔτυχε τῶν ἄλλων), ὥσπερ οὐδὲ τὸ ὑποκείμενον ποιεῖ, τὸν χαλκόν, οὕτως οὐδὲ τὴν σφαῖραν, εἰ μὴ κατὰ συμβεβηκὸς ὅτι ἡ χαλκῆ σφαῖρα σφαῖρά ἐστιν ἐκείνην δὲ ποιεῖ.
Since that which comes to be is produced by something (and by this I mean that from which the starting-point of the coming-to-be begins) and from something (let this be not the privation but the matter; for the way in which we mean this has already been defined) and becomes something (and this is either a sphere or a circle or whatever else it may chance to be), just as the craftsman does not make the substratum, the bronze, so he does not make the sphere, except accidentally, because the bronze sphere is a sphere, and he makes the latter.
τὸ γὰρ τόδε τι ποιεῖν ἐκ τοῦ ὅλως ὑποκειμένου τόδε τι ποιεῖν ἐστίν (λέγω δʼ ὅτι τὸν χαλκὸν στρογγύλον ποιεῖν ἐστὶν οὐ τὸ στρογγύλον ἢ τὴν σφαῖραν ποιεῖν ἀλλʼ ἕτερόν τι, οἷον τὸ εἶδος τοῦτο ἐν ἄλλῳ· εἰ γὰρ ποιεῖ, ἔκ τινος ἂν ποιοίη ἄλλου, τοῦτο γὰρ ὑπέκειτο· οἷον ποιεῖ χαλκῆν σφαῖραν, τοῦτο δὲ οὕτως ὅτι ἐκ τουδί, ὅ ἐστι χαλκός, τοδὶ ποιεῖ, ὅ ἐστι σφαῖρα)·
For to make a "this" is to make a "this" out of the substrate in the absolute sense (I mean that to make the bronze round is not to make the "round" or the "sphere", but something else, namely, to produce this form in something else; for if he were to make the form, he would have to make it out of something else, for this was assumed; e.g., he makes a bronze sphere, and this in the sense that out of this, which is bronze, he makes this, which is a sphere).
εἰ οὖν καὶ τοῦτο ποιεῖ αὐτό, δῆλον ὅτι ὡσαύτως ποιήσει, καὶ βαδιοῦνται αἱ γενέσεις εἰς ἄπειρον.
If, then, he also makes this form itself, it is clear that he will make it in the same way, and the comings-to-be will go on to infinity.
φανερὸν ἄρα ὅτι οὐδὲ τὸ εἶδος, ἢ ὁτιδήποτε χρὴ καλεῖν τὴν ἐν τῷ αἰσθητῷ μορφήν, οὐ γίγνεται, οὐδʼ ἔστιν αὐτοῦ γένεσις, οὐδὲ τὸ τί ἦν εἶναι (τοῦτο γάρ ἐστιν ὃ ἐν ἄλλῳ γίγνεται ἢ ὑπὸ τέχνης ἢ ὑπὸ φύσεως ἢ δυνάμεως).
It is obvious, then, that the form, or whatever one ought to call the shape in the sensible thing, does not come to be, nor is there any coming-to-be of it, nor of the essence (for this is that which comes to be in something else either by art or by nature or by power).
τὸ δὲ χαλκῆν σφαῖραν εἶναι ποιεῖ· ποιεῖ γὰρ ἐκ χαλκοῦ καὶ σφαίρας· εἰς τοδὶ γὰρ τὸ εἶδος ποιεῖ, καὶ ἔστι τοῦτο σφαῖρα χαλκῆ.
But he makes it a bronze sphere; for he makes it from bronze and a sphere; for he puts the form into this particular matter, and this is a bronze sphere.
τοῦ δὲ σφαίρᾳ εἶναι ὅλως εἰ ἔσται γένεσις, ἔκ τινος τὶ ἔσται.
But if there is to be a coming-to-be of "being a sphere" in general, it will be something coming-to-be out of something.
δεήσει γὰρ διαιρετὸν εἶναι ἀεὶ τὸ γιγνόμενον, καὶ εἶναι τὸ μὲν τόδε τὸ δὲ τόδε, λέγω δʼ ὅτι τὸ μὲν ὕλην τὸ δὲ εἶδος.
For that which comes to be must always be divisible, and be one thing "this" and another "that" (I mean, the one matter and the other form).
εἰ δή ἐστι σφαῖρα τὸ ἐκ τοῦ μέσου σχῆμα ἴσον, τούτου τὸ μὲν ἐν ᾧ ἔσται ὃ ποιεῖ, τὸ δʼ ἐν ἐκείνῳ, τὸ δὲ ἅπαν τὸ γεγονός, οἷον ἡ χαλκῆ σφαῖρα.
If, then, a sphere is "the figure whose distance from the center is equal", of this, one part will be that in which the produced thing is to be, and another part will be in that substrate, and the whole will be the product, like the bronze sphere.
φανερὸν δὴ ἐκ τῶν εἰρημένων ὅτι τὸ μὲν ὡς εἶδος ἢ οὐσία λεγόμενον οὐ γίγνεται, ἡ δὲ σύνολος ἡ κατὰ ταύτην λεγομένη γίγνεται, καὶ ὅτι ἐν παντὶ τῷ γεννωμένῳ ὕλη ἔνεστι, καὶ ἔστι τὸ μὲν τόδε τὸ δὲ τόδε. —πότερον οὖν ἔστι τις σφαῖρα παρὰ τάσδε ἢ οἰκία παρὰ τὰς πλίνθους;
It is clear, then, from what has been said, that that which is spoken of as form or substance does not come to be, but the concrete whole which is spoken of in respect of this form comes to be, and that in everything that is generated matter is present, and one part is "this" and the other "that". —Is there, then, any sphere apart from these individual spheres, or a house apart from the bricks?
ἢ οὐδʼ ἄν ποτε ἐγίγνετο, εἰ οὕτως ἦν, τόδε τι, ἀλλὰ τὸ τοιόνδε σημαίνει, τόδε δὲ καὶ ὡρισμένον οὐκ ἔστιν, ἀλλὰ ποιεῖ καὶ γεννᾷ ἐκ τοῦδε τοιόνδε, καὶ ὅταν γεννηθῇ, ἔστι τόδε τοιόνδε;
Or rather, if it were so, would any "this" ever have come to be? But "form" signifies "such-and-such", and is not a "this" and a definite thing; rather, the agent makes and generates a "such-and-such" out of "this", and when it has been generated, it is a "this such-and-such".
τὸ δὲ ἅπαν τόδε, Καλλίας ἢ Σωκράτης, ἐστὶν ὥσπερ ἡ σφαῖρα ἡ χαλκῆ ἡδί, ὁ δʼ ἄνθρωπος καὶ τὸ ζῷον ὥσπερ σφαῖρα χαλκῆ ὅλως.
And the whole "this", Callias or Socrates, is like this bronze sphere, while "man" and "animal" are like "bronze sphere" in general.
φανερὸν ἄρα ὅτι ἡ τῶν εἰδῶν αἰτία, ὡς εἰώθασί τινες λέγειν τὰ εἴδη, εἰ ἔστιν ἄττα παρὰ τὰ καθʼ ἕκαστα, πρός γε τὰς γενέσεις καὶ τὰς οὐσίας οὐθὲν χρησίμη· οὐδʼ ἂν εἶεν διά γε ταῦτα οὐσίαι καθʼ αὑτάς.
It is clear, then, that the cause which consists of the Forms (in the sense in which some are accustomed to speak of the Forms, if they are things apart from the particulars) is of no use with respect to comings-to-be and substances; nor would they, for this reason at least, be self-subsistent substances.
ἐπὶ μὲν δή τινων καὶ φανερὸν ὅτι τὸ γεννῶν τοιοῦτον μὲν οἷον τὸ γεννώμενον, οὐ μέντοι τὸ αὐτό γε, οὐδὲ ἓν τῷ ἀριθμῷ ἀλλὰ τῷ εἴδει, οἷον ἐν τοῖς φυσικοῖς—ἄνθρωπος γὰρ ἄνθρωπον γεννᾷ—ἂν μή τι παρὰ φύσιν γένηται, οἷον ἵππος ἡμίονον (καὶ ταῦτα δὲ ὁμοίως· ὃ γὰρ ἂν κοινὸν εἴη ἐφʼ ἵππου καὶ ὄνου οὐκ ὠνόμασται, τὸ ἐγγύτατα γένος, εἴη δʼ ἂν ἄμφω ἴσως, οἷον ἡμίονος)· ὥστε φανερὸν ὅτι οὐθὲν δεῖ ὡς παράδειγμα εἶδος κατασκευάζειν (μάλιστα γὰρ ἂν ἐν τούτοις ἐπεζητοῦντο· οὐσίαι γὰρ αἱ μάλιστα αὗται) ἀλλὰ ἱκανὸν τὸ γεννῶν ποιῆσαι καὶ τοῦ εἴδους αἴτιον εἶναι ἐν τῇ ὕλῃ.
Indeed, in some cases it is even obvious that the generator is of the same kind as the generated (not, however, the same individual, nor one in number, but one in form), as in the case of natural things (for man generates man), unless something happens contrary to nature, as when a horse generates a mule (and even these are similar; for that which is common to horse and ass has not been named, the nearest genus, but it would perhaps be both, like a mule); so that it is clear that there is no need to set up a Form as a pattern (for it is in these cases above all that they would be sought, since these are substances in the highest degree), but the generator is sufficient to produce the form and to be the cause of its being in the matter.
τὸ δʼ ἅπαν ἤδη, τὸ τοιόνδε εἶδος ἐν ταῖσδε ταῖς σαρξὶ καὶ ὀστοῖς, Καλλίας καὶ Σωκράτης· καὶ ἕτερον μὲν διὰ τὴν ὕλην (ἑτέρα γάρ), ταὐτὸ δὲ τῷ εἴδει (ἄτομον γὰρ τὸ εἶδος).
And the complete whole, this form in these flesh and bones, is Callias or Socrates; and they are different because of their matter (for this is different), but the same in form (for the form is indivisible).