§3.2#2καὶ γὰρ ἂν ἀποδεικτικὴ μία περὶ πάντων εἴη τῶν συμβεβηκότων, εἴπερ πᾶσα ἀποδεικτικὴ περί τι ὑποκείμενον θεωρεῖ τὰ καθʼ αὑτὰ συμβεβηκότα ἐκ τῶν κοινῶν δοξῶν.
For there would be one demonstrative science of all accidents, if indeed every demonstrative science investigates, with respect to some underlying subject, its essential accidents on the basis of the common opinions.
περὶ οὖν τὸ αὐτὸ γένος τὰ συμβεβηκότα καθʼ αὑτὰ τῆς αὐτῆς ἐστὶ θεωρῆσαι ἐκ τῶν αὐτῶν δοξῶν.
Therefore, to investigate the essential accidents concerning the same genus belongs to the same science, on the basis of the same opinions.
περί τε γὰρ ὃ μιᾶς καὶ ἐξ ὧν μιᾶς, εἴτε τῆς αὐτῆς εἴτε ἄλλης, ὥστε καὶ τὰ συμβεβηκότα, εἴθʼ αὗται θεωροῦσιν εἴτʼ ἐκ τούτων μία. —ἔτι δὲ πότερον περὶ τὰς οὐσίας μόνον ἡ θεωρία ἐστὶν ἢ καὶ περὶ τὰ συμβεβηκότα ταύταις;
For that about which a science is, is one, and those from which it proceeds are one, whether it be the same science or another; so that the accidents also are investigated, whether by these sciences or by one science derived from them. —Further, is the investigation concerned only with substances, or also with their accidents?
λέγω δʼ οἷον, εἰ τὸ στερεὸν οὐσία τίς ἐστι καὶ γραμμαὶ καὶ ἐπίπεδα, πότερον τῆς αὐτῆς ταῦτα γνωρίζειν ἐστὶν ἐπιστήμης καὶ τὰ συμβεβηκότα περὶ ἕκαστον γένος περὶ ὧν αἱ μαθηματικαὶ δεικνύουσιν, ἢ ἄλλης.
I mean, for example, if the solid is a substance, and lines and planes, does it belong to the same science to know these and the accidents concerning each genus about which the mathematical sciences demonstrate, or to another?
εἰ μὲν γὰρ τῆς αὐτῆς, ἀποδεικτική τις ἂν εἴη καὶ ἡ τῆς οὐσίας, οὐ δοκεῖ δὲ τοῦ τί ἐστιν ἀπόδειξις εἶναι·
For if to the same, the science of substance would also be a kind of demonstrative science; but it does not seem that there is a demonstration of what a thing is.
εἰ δʼ ἑτέρας, τίς ἔσται ἡ θεωροῦσα περὶ τὴν οὐσίαν τὰ συμβεβηκότα;
But if to another, what will be the science that investigates the accidents of substance?
τοῦτο γὰρ ἀποδοῦναι παγχάλεπον. —ἔτι δὲ πότερον τὰς αἰσθητὰς οὐσίας μόνας εἶναι φατέον ἢ καὶ παρὰ ταύτας ἄλλας, καὶ πότερον μοναχῶς ἢ πλείω γένη τετύχηκεν ὄντα τῶν οὐσιῶν, οἷον οἱ λέγοντες τά τε εἴδη καὶ τὰ μεταξύ, περὶ ἃ τὰς μαθηματικὰς εἶναί φασιν ἐπιστήμας;
For to render an account of this is extremely difficult. —Further, must we say that only sensible substances exist, or others also besides these? And do the substances happen to be of one kind only, or of several genera, as those say who assert the existence of both the Forms and the Intermediates, with which they say the mathematical sciences are concerned?
ὡς μὲν οὖν λέγομεν τὰ εἴδη αἴτιά τε καὶ οὐσίας εἶναι καθʼ ἑαυτὰς εἴρηται ἐν τοῖς πρώτοις λόγοις περὶ αὐτῶν· πολλαχῇ δὲ ἐχόντων δυσκολίαν, οὐθενὸς ἧττον ἄτοπον τὸ φάναι μὲν εἶναί τινας φύσεις παρὰ τὰς ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ταύτας δὲ τὰς αὐτὰς φάναι τοῖς αἰσθητοῖς πλὴν ὅτι τὰ μὲν ἀΐδια τὰ δὲ φθαρτά.
Now, how we say that the Forms are both causes and substances in themselves has been stated in our first discussions about them; but though they present difficulties in many ways, it is no less absurd to say that there are certain natures besides those in the heavens, and yet to say that these are the same as sensible things except that the former are eternal and the latter destructible.
αὐτὸ γὰρ ἄνθρωπόν φασιν εἶναι καὶ ἵππον καὶ ὑγίειαν, ἄλλο δʼ οὐδέν, παραπλήσιον ποιοῦντες τοῖς θεοὺς μὲν εἶναι φάσκουσιν ἀνθρωποειδεῖς δέ· οὔτε γὰρ ἐκεῖνοι οὐδὲν ἄλλο ἐποίουν ἢ ἀνθρώπους ἀϊδίους, οὔθʼ οὗτοι τὰ εἴδη ἄλλʼ ἢ αἰσθητὰ ἀΐδια.
For they say that there is Man-himself, and Horse-himself, and Health-itself, and nothing else, herein doing much the same as those who say that there are gods, but that they are human in form; for neither did they make them anything else than eternal men, nor do these thinkers make the Forms anything else than eternal sensible things.
ἔτι δὲ εἴ τις παρὰ τὰ εἴδη καὶ τὰ αἰσθητὰ τὰ μεταξὺ θήσεται, πολλὰς ἀπορίας ἕξει· δῆλον γὰρ ὡς ὁμοίως γραμμαί τε παρά τʼ αὐτὰς καὶ τὰς αἰσθητὰς ἔσονται καὶ ἕκαστον τῶν ἄλλων γενῶν· ὥστʼ ἐπείπερ ἡ ἀστρολογία μία τούτων ἐστίν, ἔσται τις καὶ οὐρανὸς παρὰ τὸν αἰσθητὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ ἥλιός τε καὶ σελήνη καὶ τἆλλα ὁμοίως τὰ κατὰ τὸν οὐρανόν.
Further, if one posits the Intermediates besides the Forms and sensible things, he will have many difficulties; for it is clear that in like manner there will be lines besides both the Forms themselves and sensible lines, and so too for each of the other genera; so that, since astronomy is one of these mathematical sciences, there will be also a certain heaven besides the sensible heaven, and a sun and a moon and the other things in the heaven in like manner.
καίτοι πῶς δεῖ πιστεῦσαι τούτοις;
Yet how are we to believe these things?
οὐδὲ γὰρ ἀκίνητον εὔλογον εἶναι, κινούμενον δὲ καὶ παντελῶς ἀδύνατον· ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ περὶ ὧν ἡ ὀπτικὴ πραγματεύεται καὶ ἡ ἐν τοῖς μαθήμασιν ἁρμονική· καὶ γὰρ ταῦτα ἀδύνατον εἶναι παρὰ τὰ αἰσθητὰ διὰ τὰς αὐτὰς αἰτίας· εἰ γὰρ ἔστιν αἰσθητὰ μεταξὺ καὶ αἰσθήσεις, δῆλον ὅτι καὶ ζῷα ἔσονται μεταξὺ αὐτῶν τε καὶ τῶν φθαρτῶν.
For it is not reasonable that it should be unmovable, and that it should be in motion is altogether impossible; and similarly concerning the objects of optics and the harmony in mathematics; for these also cannot exist besides sensible things for the same reasons; for if there are intermediate sensible objects and sensations, clearly there will also be animals intermediate between them and destructible animals.
ἀπορήσειε δʼ ἄν τις καὶ περὶ ποῖα τῶν ὄντων δεῖ ζητεῖν ταύτας τὰς ἐπιστήμας.
One might also raise a difficulty as to what kinds of existing things we must seek these sciences.
εἰ γὰρ τούτῳ διοίσει τῆς γεωδαισίας ἡ γεωμετρία μόνον, ὅτι ἡ μὲν τούτων ἐστὶν ὧν αἰσθανόμεθα ἡ δʼ οὐκ αἰσθητῶν, δῆλον ὅτι καὶ παρʼ ἰατρικὴν ἔσται τις ἐπιστήμη καὶ παρʼ ἑκάστην τῶν ἄλλων μεταξὺ αὐτῆς τε ἰατρικῆς καὶ τῆσδε τῆς ἰατρικῆς· καίτοι πῶς τοῦτο δυνατόν;
For if geometry differs from geodesy only in this, that the one is concerned with things we perceive and the other with things not perceived, clearly besides medicine there will be some science, and so for each of the other sciences, intermediate between medicine itself and this individual medicine; yet how is this possible?
καὶ γὰρ ἂν ὑγιείνʼ ἄττα εἴη παρὰ τὰ αἰσθητὰ καὶ αὐτὸ τὸ ὑγιεινόν.
For there would have to be certain healthy things besides sensible things, and Health-itself.
ἅμα δὲ οὐδὲ τοῦτο ἀληθές, ὡς ἡ γεωδαισία τῶν αἰσθητῶν ἐστὶ μεγεθῶν καὶ φθαρτῶν· ἐφθείρετο γὰρ ἂν φθειρομένων. —ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδὲ τῶν αἰσθητῶν ἂν εἴη μεγεθῶν οὐδὲ περὶ τὸν οὐρανὸν ἡ ἀστρολογία τόνδε.
And at the same time, not even this is true, that geodesy is concerned with sensible and destructible magnitudes; for it would be destroyed when they are destroyed. —But indeed, neither would astronomy be concerned with sensible magnitudes nor with this heaven.
οὔτε γὰρ αἱ αἰσθηταὶ γραμμαὶ τοιαῦταί εἰσιν οἵας λέγει ὁ γεωμέτρης (οὐθὲν γὰρ εὐθὺ τῶν αἰσθητῶν οὕτως οὐδὲ στρογγύλον· ἅπτεται γὰρ τοῦ κανόνος οὐ κατὰ στιγμὴν ὁ κύκλος ἀλλʼ ὥσπερ Πρωταγόρας ἔλεγεν ἐλέγχων τοὺς γεωμέτρας), οὔθʼ αἱ κινήσεις καὶ ἕλικες τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὅμοιαι περὶ ὧν ἡ ἀστρολογία ποιεῖται τοὺς λόγους, οὔτε τὰ σημεῖα τοῖς ἄστροις τὴν αὐτὴν ἔχει φύσιν.
For neither are sensible lines such as the geometer says they are (for nothing of sensible things is straight or round in this way; for the circle touches the ruler not at a point, but as Protagoras used to say in refuting the geometers), nor are the motions and spirals of the heaven similar to those about which astronomy makes its theories, nor do the points have the same nature as the stars.
εἰσὶ δέ τινες οἵ φασιν εἶναι μὲν τὰ μεταξὺ ταῦτα λεγόμενα τῶν τε εἰδῶν καὶ τῶν αἰσθητῶν, οὐ μὴν χωρίς γε τῶν αἰσθητῶν ἀλλʼ ἐν τούτοις· οἷς τὰ συμβαίνοντα ἀδύνατα πάντα μὲν πλείονος λόγου διελθεῖν, ἱκανὸν δὲ καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα θεωρῆσαι.
But there are some who say that there are indeed these so-called Intermediates between the Forms and sensible things, yet not separate from sensible things but in them; to go through all the impossible consequences for these thinkers would require a longer discussion, but it is enough to investigate even the following.
οὔτε γὰρ ἐπὶ τούτων εὔλογον ἔχειν οὕτω μόνον, ἀλλὰ δῆλον ὅτι καὶ τὰ εἴδη ἐνδέχοιτʼ ἂν ἐν τοῖς αἰσθητοῖς εἶναι (τοῦ γὰρ αὐτοῦ λόγου ἀμφότερα ταῦτά ἐστιν), ἔτι δὲ δύο στερεὰ ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι τόπῳ, καὶ μὴ εἶναι ἀκίνητα ἐν κινουμένοις γε ὄντα τοῖς αἰσθητοῖς.
For it is not reasonable that this should be so only in the case of these Intermediates, but clearly it would also be possible for the Forms to be in sensible things (for both of these belong to the same theory); further, it would be necessary for two solids to be in the same place, and they could not be unmovable, since they are in sensible things which are in motion.
ὅλως δὲ τίνος ἕνεκʼ ἄν τις θείη εἶναι μὲν αὐτά, εἶναι δʼ ἐν τοῖς αἰσθητοῖς;
And in general, for what reason should one posit that they exist, but exist in sensible things?
ταὐτὰ γὰρ συμβήσεται ἄτοπα τοῖς προειρημένοις· ἔσται γὰρ οὐρανός τις παρὰ τὸν οὐρανόν, πλήν γʼ οὐ χωρὶς ἀλλʼ ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ τόπῳ· ὅπερ ἐστὶν ἀδυνατώτερον.
For the same absurdities will follow as those mentioned before; for there will be a certain heaven besides the heaven, except not separate but in the same place; which is even more impossible.