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Lucian · Zeus Rants §45-48

Dispute on Providence: Thunder and the Metaphor of the Ship

Passage 13 of 14 · Greek

Summary

Timocles attempts to prove the existence of the gods and divine providence using thunder and the metaphor of navigation, but Damis counterattacks by citing the Cretan tomb of Zeus and the absurdities in actual voyages, such as the unjust treatment of sailors and the prosperity of the wicked.

§45Τιμοκλῆς οὐδὲ βροντῶντος ἄρα τοῦ Διὸς ἀκούεις, ὦ θεομάχε Δᾶμι;
Timocles Do you not even hear Zeus thundering, then, you fighter against gods, Damis?
Δάμις καὶ πῶς οὐ μέλλω βροντῆς ἀκούειν, ὦ Τιμόκλεις;
Damis And how am I not going to hear thunder, Timocles?
εἰ δʼ ὁ Ζεὺς ὁ βροντῶν ἐστι, σὺ ἄμεινον ἂν εἰδείης ἐκεῖθέν ποθεν παρὰ τῶν θεῶν ἀφιγμένος· ἐπεὶ οἵ γε ἐκ Κρήτης ἥκοντες ἄλλα ἡμῖν διηγοῦνται, τάφον τινὰ κεῖθι δείκνυσθαι καὶ στήλην ἐφεστάναι δηλοῦσαν ὡς οὐκέτι βροντήσειεν ἂν ὁ Ζεὺς πάλαι τεθνεώς.
But if it is Zeus who thunders, you would know better, having arrived from somewhere over there from the gods; since those who come from Crete tell us other things, that a certain tomb is shown there and a pillar stands upon it showing that Zeus, having died long ago, would no longer thunder.
Μῶμος τοῦτʼ ἐγὼ πρὸ πολλοῦ ἠπιστάμην ἐροῦντα τὸν ἄνθρωπον.
Momus I knew long ago that the man would say this.
τί δʼ οὖν, ὦ Ζεῦ, ὠχρίακας ἡμῖν καὶ συγκροτεῖς τοὺς ὀδόντας ὑπὸ τοῦ τρόμου;
But why, Zeus, have you turned pale for us and are chattering your teeth from fear?
θαρρεῖν χρὴ καὶ τῶν τοιούτων ἀνθρωπίσκων καταφρονεῖν.
You ought to take courage and despise such petty fellows.
Ζεύς τί λέγεις, ὦ Μῶμε;
Zeus What do you mean, Momus?
καταφρονεῖν;
Despise them?
οὐχ ὁρᾷς ὅσοι ἀκούουσι καὶ ὡς συμπεπεισμένοι εἰσὶν ἤδη καθʼ ἡμῶν καὶ ἀπάγει αὐτοὺς ἀναδησάμενος τῶν ὤτων ὁ Δᾶμις;
Do you not see how many are listening, and how they are already persuaded against us, and that Damis is leading them away, having bound them by their ears?
Μῶμος ἀλλὰ σύ, ὦ Ζεῦ, ὁπόταν θελήσῃς, σειρὴν χρυσείην καθεὶς ἅπαντας αὐτοὺς "αὐτῇ κεν γαίῃ ἐρύσαις αὐτῇ τε θαλάσσῃ. " §46Τιμοκλῆς εἰπέ μοι, ὦ κατάρατε, πέπλευκας ἤδη ποτέ;
Momus But you, Zeus, whenever you wish, can let down a golden chain and drag them all up "with the very earth and the very sea." Timocles Tell me, you cursed man, have you ever sailed before?
Δάμις καὶ πολλάκις, ὦ Τιμόκλεις.
Damis And many times, Timocles.
Τιμοκλῆς οὔκουν ἔφερε μὲν ὑμᾶς τότε ἢ ἄνεμος ἐμπίπτων τῇ ὀθόνῃ καὶ ἐμπιπλὰς τὰ ἀκάτια ἢ οἱ ἐρέττοντες, ἐκυβέρνα δὲ εἷς τις ἐφεστὼς καὶ ἔσωζε τὴν ναῦν;
Timocles Did not, then, either a wind falling upon the sail and filling the boats, or the rowers, carry you, while one man standing at the helm steered and saved the ship?
Δάμις καὶ μάλα.
Damis Very much so.
Τιμοκλῆς εἶτα ἡ ναῦς μὲν οὐκ ἂν ἔπλει μὴ κυβερνωμένη, τὸ δὲ ὅλον τοῦτο ἀκυβέρνητον οἴει καὶ ἀνηγεμόνευτον φέρεσθαι;
Timocles Then, while the ship would not sail if not steered, do you think this universe is carried along unsteered and leaderless?
Ζεύς εὖ γε, συνετῶς ὁ Τιμοκλῆς ταῦτα καὶ ἰσχυρῷ τῷ παραδείγματι.
Zeus Well done, Timocles has said this wisely and with a powerful illustration.
§47Δάμις ἀλλʼ, ὦ θεοφιλέστατε Τιμόκλεις, τὸν μὲν κυβερνήτην ἐκεῖνον εἶδες ἂν ἀεὶ τὰ συμφέροντα ἐπινοοῦντα καὶ πρὸ τοῦ καιροῦ παρασκευαζόμενον καὶ προστάττοντα τοῖς ναύταις, ἀλυσιτελὲς δὲ οὐδὲ ἄλογον οὐδέν τι εἶχεν ἡ ναῦς ὃ μὴ χρήσιμον πάντως καὶ ἀναγκαῖον ἦν πρὸς τὴν ναυτιλίαν αὐτοῖς·
Damis But, most god-beloved Timocles, you would have seen that helmsman always thinking of what is advantageous, preparing before the proper time, and commanding the sailors, and the ship had nothing unprofitable or unreasonable that was not entirely useful and necessary for their navigation.
ὁ δὲ σὸς οὗτος κυβερνήτης, ὃν τῇ μεγάλῃ ταύτῃ νηῒ ἐφεστάναι ἀξιοῖς, καὶ οἱ συνναῦται αὐτοῦ οὐδὲν εὐλόγως οὐδὲ κατὰ τὴν ἀξίαν διατάττουσιν, ἀλλʼ ὁ μὲν πρότονος, εἰ τύχοι, ἐς τὴν πρύμναν ἀποτέταται, οἱ πόδες δʼ ἐς τὴν πρῷραν ἀμφότεροι· καὶ χρυσαῖ μὲν αἱ ἄγκυραι ἐνίοτε, ὁ χηνίσκος δὲ μολυβδοῦς, καὶ τὰ μὲν ὕφαλα κατάγραφα, τὰ δὲ ἔξαλα τῆς νεὼς ἄμορφα.
But this helmsman of yours, whom you think stands over this great ship, and his fellow sailors do not arrange anything reasonably or according to merit, but the forestay, if it so happens, is stretched to the stern, and both sheets to the bow; and the anchors are sometimes golden, while the goose-neck ornament is made of lead, and the parts below water are painted, while the parts above water are unsightly.
§48Δάμις καὶ αὐτῶν δὲ τῶν ναυτῶν ἴδοις ἂν τὸν μὲν ἀργὸν καὶ ἄτεχνον καὶ ἄτολμον πρὸς τὰ ἔργα διμοιρίτην ἢ τριμοιρίτην, τὸν δὲ κατακολυμβῆσαί τε ἄοκνον καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν κεραίαν ἀναπηδῆσαι ῥᾴδιον καὶ εἰδότα τῶν χρησίμων ἕκαστα μόνον, τοῦτον ἀντλεῖν προστεταγμένον·
Damis And among the sailors themselves, you might see one who is idle, unskilled, and cowardly in his duties getting double or triple pay, while the one who is untiring in diving, nimble in leaping onto the yardarm, and alone knows each useful thing, is ordered to pump bilge-water.
τὰ δὲ αὐτὰ καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἐπιβάταις, μαστιγίαν μέν τινα ἐν προεδρίᾳ παρὰ τὸν κυβερνήτην καθήμενον καὶ θεραπευόμενον, καὶ ἄλλον κίναιδον ἢ πατραλοίαν ἢ ἱερόσυλον ὑπερτιμώμενον καὶ τὰ ἄκρα τῆς νεὼς κατειληφότα, χαρίεντας δὲ πολλοὺς ἐν μυχῷ τοῦ σκάφους στενοχωρουμένους καὶ ὑπὸ τῶν πρὸς ἀλήθειαν χειρόνων πατουμένους·
The very same things happen among the passengers too: some scoundrel sitting in the seat of honor next to the helmsman and being courted, and another who is a catamite or a parricide or a temple-robber being highly honored and occupying the highest parts of the ship, while many refined people are crowded together in the corner of the hold and trampled upon by those who are truly worse.
ἐννόησον γοῦν ὅπως μὲν Σωκράτης καὶ Ἀριστείδης ἔπλευσαν καὶ Φωκίων, οὐδὲ τὰ ἄλφιτα διαρκῆ ἔχοντες οὐδὲ ἀποτεῖναι τοὺς πόδας δυνάμενοι ἐπὶ γυμνῶν τῶν σανίδων παρὰ τὸν ἄντλον, ἐν ὅσοις δὲ ἀγαθοῖς Καλλίας καὶ Μειδίας καὶ Σαρδανάπαλλος, ὑπερτρυφῶντες καὶ τῶν ὑφʼ αὑτοῖς καταπτύοντες.
Consider, at any rate, how Socrates, Aristides, and Phocion sailed, not even having sufficient barley-meal nor being able to stretch out their legs on the bare planks next to the bilge, while Callias, Midias, and Sardanapalus lived in what great abundance, over-luxuriating and spitting upon those below them.

Notes

  1. §45ἐροῦντα — An accusative participle functioning as the complement of `ἠπιστάμην`, a verb of knowing. It expresses a future statement in indirect discourse: '(I knew long ago) that the man would say (this).'
  2. §45βροντήσειεν ἂν — Aorist optative with `ἂν` in a noun clause introduced by `ὡς`. Although it stands in an indirect discourse context controlled by historical sequence, the combination represents the original potential optative ('Zeus would no longer thunder') preserved without change.
  3. §47εἶδες ἂν — The past indicative `εἶδες` with the particle `ἂν`, representing either a past contrary-to-fact condition ('you would have seen') or a past habitual action ('you would see from time to time'). Damis uses this to contrast a competent human helmsman with the chaotic governance of the universe by the gods.

Cite this passage

Lucian, Zeus Rants §45-48. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.humanitext-grc2:45-48

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