Humanitext Reader

Lucian · Zeus Catechized §9-12

Interrogation on Providence and Uselessness of Prophecy

Passage 3 of 5 · Greek

Summary

Cyniscus interrogates Zeus regarding the nature of Providence and its relationship with the Fates, arguing that the gods are mere tools of Destiny. He further contends that if all events are predetermined, prophecy is entirely useless to humans.

§9Ζεύς ὁρᾷς;
Zeus: Do you see?
ταῦτʼ ἤδη ὑβριστικά, ὦ Κυνίσκε, φής· καί σοι τάχα μεταμελήσει ποτὲ αὐτῶν.
What you say now, Cyniscus, is already insolent, and perhaps you will regret it someday.
Κυνίσκος φείδου, ὦ Ζεῦ, τῶν ἀπειλῶν, εἰδὼς οὐδέν με πεισόμενον ὅ τι μὴ καὶ τῇ Μοίρᾳ πρὸ σοῦ ἔδοξεν·
Cyniscus: Spare me your threats, Zeus, since you know that I shall suffer nothing except what has been decided by Fate before you.
ἐπεὶ οὐδʼ αὐτοὺς ἐκείνους ὁρῶ τοὺς ἱεροσύλους κολαζομένους, ἀλλʼ οἵ γε πλεῖστοι διαφεύγουσιν ὑμᾶς·
Indeed, I do not see even those temple-robbers themselves being punished; rather, most of them escape you.
οὐ γὰρ εἵμαρτο, οἶμαι, ἁλῶναι αὐτούς.
For it was not fated, I suppose, that they should be caught.
Ζεύς οὐκ ἔλεγον ὡς ἄρʼ ἐκείνων τις εἶ τῶν ἀναιρούντων τὴν πρόνοιαν τῷ λόγῳ;
Zeus: Did I not say that you are indeed one of those who by argument abolish providence?
Κυνίσκος πάνυ, ὦ Ζεῦ, δέδιας αὐτούς, οὐκ οἶδα ὅτου ἕνεκα· πάντα γοῦν ὁπόσα ἂν εἴπω, ὑποπτεύεις ἐκείνων παιδεύματα εἶναι.
Cyniscus: You are exceedingly afraid of them, Zeus, I know not why; at any rate, whatever I say, you suspect it to be their teachings.
§10Κυνίσκος ἐγὼ δὲ — παρὰ τίνος γὰρ ἂν ἄλλου τἀληθὲς ἢ παρὰ σοῦ μάθοιμι; — ἡδέως δʼ ἂν καὶ τοῦτο ἐροίμην σε, τίς ἡ Πρόνοια ὑμῖν αὕτη ἐστί, Μοῖρά τις ἢ καὶ ὑπὲρ ταύτας θεὸς ὥσπερ, ἄρχουσα καὶ αὐτῶν ἐκείνων;
Cyniscus: But as for me—for from whom else should I learn the truth than from you?—I would gladly ask you this as well: what is this Providence of yours? Is it a sort of Fate, or even a god above these, as it were, ruling over them as well?
Ζεύς ἤδη σοι καὶ πρότερον ἔφην οὐ θεμιτὸν εἶναι πάντα σε εἰδέναι.
Zeus: I have already told you before that it is not permitted for you to know all things.
σὺ δʼ ἕν τι ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐρωτήσειν φήσας οὐ παύῃ τοσαῦτα πρός με λεπτολογούμενος· καὶ ὁρῶ ὅτι σοι τὸ κεφάλαιόν ἐστι τοῦ λόγου ἐπιδεῖξαι οὐδενὸς ἡμᾶς προνοοῦντας τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων.
Although you said at the beginning that you would ask only one thing, you do not cease hair-splitting with me; and I see that the main point of your argument is to show that we exercise providence over nothing of human affairs.
Κυνίσκος οὐκ ἐμὸν τοῦτο, ἀλλὰ σὺ μικρὸν ἔμπροσθεν ἔφησθα τὰς Μοίρας εἶναι τὰς ἅπαντα ἐπιτελούσας·
Cyniscus: This is not my doing, but you yourself said a little while ago that the Fates are the ones who accomplish all things.
εἰ μὴ μεταμέλει σοι ἐκείνων καὶ ἀνατίθεσαι αὖθις τὰ εἰρημένα καὶ ἀμφισβητεῖτε τῆς ἐπιμελείας παρωσάμενοι τὴν Εἱμαρμένην;
Or do you regret those words and retract what was said, and do you contest the care of things, pushing Fate aside?
§11Ζεύς οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλʼ ἡ Μοῖρα διʼ ἡμῶν ἕκαστα ἐπιτελεῖ.
Zeus: By no means; rather, Fate accomplishes each thing through us.
Κυνίσκος μανθάνω· ὑπηρέται καὶ διάκονοί τινες τῶν Μοιρῶν εἶναί φατε.
Cyniscus: I understand; you say that you are some kind of servants and ministers of the Fates.
πλὴν ἀλλὰ καὶ οὕτως ἐκεῖναι ἂν εἶεν αἱ προνοοῦσαι, ὑμεῖς δὲ ὥσπερ σκεύη τινὰ καὶ ἐργαλεῖά ἐστε αὐτῶν.
But even so, they would be the ones who exercise providence, and you are like their vessels and tools.
Ζεύς πῶς λέγεις;
Zeus: How do you mean?
Κυνίσκος ὥσπερ, οἶμαι, καὶ τὸ σκέπαρνον τῷ τέκτονι καὶ τὸ τρύπανον συνεργεῖ μέν τι πρὸς τὴν τέχνην, οὐδεὶς δʼ ἂν εἴποι ὡς ταῦτα ὁ τεχνίτης ἐστίν, οὐδʼ ἡ ναῦς ἔργον τοῦ σκεπάρνου ἢ τοῦ τρυπάνου, ἀλλὰ τοῦ ναυπηγοῦ·
Cyniscus: Just as, I suppose, the adze and the drill cooperate in some way with the carpenter for his craft, but no one would say that these are the craftsman, nor is the ship the work of the adze or the drill, but of the shipbuilder.
ἀνάλογον τοίνυν ἡ μὲν ναυπηγουμένη ἕκαστα ἡ Εἱμαρμένη ἐστίν, ὑμεῖς δέ, εἴπερ ἄρα, τρύπανα καὶ σκέπαρνά ἐστε τῶν Μοιρῶν·
Analogously, therefore, she who builds each thing is Fate, and you, if indeed anything, are drills and adzes of the Fates.
καί, ὡς ἔοικεν, οἱ ἄνθρωποι δέον τῇ Εἱμαρμένῃ θύειν καὶ παρʼ ἐκείνης αἰτεῖν τἀγαθά, οἱ δʼ ἐφʼ ὑμᾶς ἴασι προσόδοις καὶ θυσίαις γεραίροντες·
And, as it seems, while humans ought to sacrifice to Fate and ask good things from her, they go to you, honoring you with processions and sacrifices.
ἢ οὐδὲ τὴν Εἱμαρμένην τιμῶντες εἰς δέον ἂν αὐτὸ ἔπραττον· οὐ γὰρ οἶμαι δυνατὸν εἶναι οὐδὲ αὐταῖς ἔτι ταῖς Μοίραις ἀλλάξαι τι καὶ μετατρέψαι τῶν ἐξ ἀρχῆς δοξάντων περὶ ἑκάστου·
Or rather, not even by honoring Fate would they do what is proper; for I do not think it is possible even for the Fates themselves to change or alter anything of what was resolved from the beginning concerning each.
ἡ γοῦν Ἄτροπος οὐκ ἀνάσχοιτʼ ἄν, εἴ τις εἰς τὸ ἐναντίον στρέψειε τὸν ἄτρακτον ἀναλύων τῆς Κλωθοῦς τὸ ἔργον.
At any rate, Atropos would not tolerate it if someone should turn the spindle in the opposite direction, undoing the work of Clotho.
§12Ζεύς σὺ δʼ ἤδη, ὦ Κυνίσκε, οὐδὲ τὰς Μοίρας τιμᾶσθαι πρὸς τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀξιοῖς;
Zeus: Do you now, Cyniscus, deem that not even the Fates should be honored by humans?
ἀλλʼ ἔοικας ἅπαντα συγχεῖν προαιρεῖσθαι.
You seem to wish to throw everything into confusion.
ἡμεῖς δὲ εἰ καὶ μηδενὸς ἄλλου ἕνεκα, τοῦ γε μαντεύεσθαι καὶ προμηνύειν ἕκαστα τῶν ὑπὸ τῆς Μοίρας κεκυρωμένων δικαίως τιμῴμεθʼ ἄν.
But we, if for nothing else, would justly be honored at least for prophesying and foretelling each of the things decreed by Fate.
Κυνίσκος τὸ μὲν ὅλον, ἄχρηστον, ὦ Ζεῦ, προειδέναι τὰ μέλλοντα οἷς γε τὸ φυλάξασθαι αὐτὰ παντελῶς ἀδύνατον·
Cyniscus: On the whole, Zeus, it is useless to foreknow the future for those for whom it is utterly impossible to guard against it.
εἰ μὴ ἄρα τοῦτο φής, ὡς ὁ προμαθὼν ὅτι ὑπʼ αἰχμῆς σιδηρᾶς τεθνήξεται δύναιτʼ ἂν ἐκφυγεῖν τὸν θάνατον καθείρξας ἑαυτόν; ἀλλʼ ἀδύνατον·
Unless indeed you say this: that a man who has learned beforehand that he will die by an iron spear-point could escape death by locking himself up?
ἐξάξει γὰρ αὐτὸν ἡ Μοῖρα κυνηγετήσοντα καὶ παραδώσει τῇ αἰχμῇ·
But it is impossible; for Fate will lead him out to hunt and will hand him over to the spear-point.
καὶ ὁ Ἄδραστος ἐπὶ τὸν σῦν ἀφεὶς τὴν λόγχην ἐκείνου μὲν ἁμαρτήσεται, φονεύσει δὲ τὸν Κροίσου παῖδα, ὡς ἂν ἀπʼ ἰσχυρᾶς ἐμβολῆς τῶν Μοιρῶν φερομένου τοῦ ἀκοντίου ἐπὶ τὸν νεανίσκον.
And Adrastus, having hurled his spear at the boar, will miss it, but will kill the son of Croesus, as if the javelin were carried toward the youth by the strong impulse of the Fates.

Notes

  1. §9ὅ τι μὴ καὶ τῇ Μοίρᾳ πρὸ σοῦ ἔδοξεν — ὅ τι is the accusative neuter singular of the relative pronoun ὅστις. μή is the negative associated with a conditional or hypothetical clause. πρὸ σοῦ ("before you" or "in preference to you") emphasizes that the decision of Fate takes precedence over Zeus's own will.
  2. §10τὰς Μοίρας εἶναι τὰς ἅπαντα ἐπιτελούσας — An accusative-and-infinitive construction of indirect speech. τὰς Μοίρας is the subject accusative of εἶναι. τὰς ἅπαντα ἐπιτελούσας is an attributive participle with the article acting as a substantive ("those who accomplish all things"), functioning as the predicate of εἶναι.
  3. §11ὥσπερ, οἶμαι, καὶ τὸ σκέπαρνον τῷ τέκτονι καὶ τὸ τρύπανον συνεργεῖ μέν τι πρὸς τὴν τέχνην — In the comparative clause (ὥσπερ...), the subjects are τὸ σκέπαρνον ("the adze") and τὸ τρύπανον ("the drill"), while the verb συνεργεῖ ("cooperates") is in the singular. This is because the subjects are conceived together as a single class of tools, or analogous to neuter plurals taking a singular verb. τῷ τέκτονι is a dative of advantage ("for the carpenter"). τι is used adverbially ("to some extent").
  4. §12ὡς ἂν ἀπʼ ἰσχυρᾶς ἐμβολῆς τῶν Μοιρῶν φερομένου τοῦ ἀκοντίου — ὡς ἄν with the participle (φερομένου) expresses a hypothetical comparison ("as if..."). φερομένου τοῦ ἀκοντίου is a genitive absolute construction. ἀπʼ ἰσχυρᾶς ἐμβολῆς is a prepositional phrase denoting the cause or instrument ("by a strong impulse").

Cite this passage

Lucian, Zeus Catechized §9-12. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg017.humanitext-grc2:9-12

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