§9.857ΑΘ. κοινὸς δʼ ἔτι τρίτος εἷς ἔστω νόμος περὶ δικαστῶν τε, οὓς δεῖ δικάζειν αὐτοῖς, καὶ ὁ τρόπος τῶν δικῶν, οἷς ἂν προδόσεως αἰτίαν ἐπιφέρων τις εἰς δικαστήριον ἄγῃ· καὶ μονῆς ὡσαύτως ἐκγόνοις καὶ ἐξόδου τῆς πατρίδος εἷς ἔστω περὶ ταῦτα νόμος οὗτος τρισί, προδότῃ καὶ ἱεροσύλῳ καὶ τῷ τοὺς τῆς πόλεως νόμους βίᾳ ἀπολλύντι.
ATH. And let there still be a third common law concerning both the judges who must judge them and the procedure of the trials, for whomsoever one may bring to court, bringing a charge of treason; and likewise, concerning the staying of their offspring and their departure from their fatherland, let there be this one law concerning these things for the three: the traitor, the temple-robber, and the one who violently destroys the laws of the city.
κλέπτῃ δέ, ἐάντε μέγα ἐάντε σμικρὸν κλέπτῃ τις, εἷς αὖ νόμος κείσθω καὶ μία δίκης τιμωρία σύμπασιν· τὸ μὲν γὰρ κλαπὲν δὴ χρεὼν διπλάσιον πρῶτον ἐκτίνειν, ἐὰν ὄφλῃ τις τὴν τοιαύτην δίκην καὶ ἱκανὴν ἔχῃ τὴν ἄλλην οὐσίαν ἀποτίνειν ὑπὲρ τὸν κλῆρον, ἐὰν δὲ μή, δεδέσθαι ἕως ἂν ἐκτείσῃ ἢ πείσῃ τὸν καταδικασάμενον.
But for a thief, whether one steals a great thing or a small thing, let there again be established one law and one punishment of justice for all; for it is necessary, first, to pay back double the stolen thing, if one is convicted of such a lawsuit and has sufficient other property to pay beyond the allotment; but if not, he must be bound until he pays or persuades the one who obtained the judgment.
ἐὰν δέ τις ὄφλῃ κλοπῆς δημοσίᾳ δίκην, πείσας τὴν πόλιν ἢ τὸ κλέμμα ἐκτείσας διπλοῦν, ἀπαλλαττέσθω τῶν δεσμῶν.
And if anyone is convicted of a public lawsuit of theft, having persuaded the city or having paid double the stolen thing, let him be released from his bonds.
ΚΛ. πῶς δὴ λέγομεν, ὦ ξένε, μηδὲν διαφέρειν τῷ κλέπτοντι μέγα ἢ σμικρὸν ὑφελομένῳ, καὶ ἐξ ἱερῶν ἢ ὁσίων, καὶ ὅσα ἄλλα ἐστὶν περὶ κλοπὴν πᾶσαν ἀνομοιότητα ἔχοντα, οἷς δεῖ ποικίλοις οὖσιν ἕπεσθαι τὸν νομοθέτην μηδὲν ὁμοίαις ζημίαις ζημιοῦντα;
KLE. How indeed do we say, O Stranger, that it makes no difference to the thief whether he has stolen a great or a small thing, and from sacred or profane places, and whatever other differences there are concerning theft, containing every kind of dissimilarity, which being diverse the legislator must follow, by no means punishing with similar penalties?
ΑΘ. ἄριστʼ, ὦ Κλεινία·
ATH. Excellent, O Cleinias!
σχεδόν τοί με ὥσπερ φερόμενον ἀντικρούσας ἀνήγειρας, ἐννενοηκότα δὲ καὶ πρότερον ὑπέμνησας ὅτι τὰ περὶ τὴν τῶν νόμων θέσιν οὐδενὶ τρόπῳ πώποτε γέγονεν ὀρθῶς διαπεπονημένα, ὥς γε ἐν τῷ νῦν παραπεπτωκότι λέγειν.
You have struck against and awakened me, as I was being carried along, and you have reminded me, though I had thought of it before, that the matters concerning the establishment of laws have never in any way been worked out correctly, at least to speak of the present case.
πῶς δʼ αὖ καὶ τοῦτο λέγομεν;
But how in turn do we say this too?
οὐ κακῶς ἀπῃκάσαμεν, ὅτε δούλοις ὡς ἰατρευομένοις ὑπὸ δούλων ἀπῃκάζομεν πάντας τοὺς νῦν νομοθετουμένους.
We did not make a bad comparison when we compared all those who now receive laws to slaves being treated by slave doctors.
εὖ γὰρ ἐπίστασθαι δεῖ τὸ τοιόνδε, ὡς εἰ καταλάβοι ποτέ τις ἰατρὸς τῶν ταῖς ἐμπειρίαις ἄνευ λόγου τὴν ἰατρικὴν μεταχειριζομένων ἐλεύθερον ἐλευθέρῳ νοσοῦντι διαλεγόμενον ἰατρόν, καὶ τοῦ φιλοσοφεῖν ἐγγὺς χρώμενον μὲν τοῖς λόγοις, ἐξ ἀρχῆς τε ἁπτόμενον τοῦ νοσήματος, περὶ φύσεως πάσης ἐπανιόντα τῆς τῶν σωμάτων, ταχὺ καὶ σφόδρα γελάσειεν ἂν καὶ οὐκ ἂν ἄλλους εἴποι λόγους ἢ τοὺς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτʼ ἀεὶ προχείρους ὄντας τοῖς πλείστοις λεγομένοις ἰατροῖς· φαίη γὰρ ἂν
ὦ μῶρε, οὐκ ἰατρεύεις τὸν νοσοῦντα ἀλλὰ σχεδὸν παιδεύεις, ὡς ἰατρὸν ἀλλʼ οὐχ ὑγιῆ δεόμενον γίγνεσθαι
.
For one must know well such a thing, that if any of the doctors who practice medicine by experience without reason should find a free doctor conversing with a free sick man, and using arguments close to philosophizing, touching upon the disease from its origin, and going back to the whole nature of bodies, he would quickly and heartily laugh, and would say no other words than those always ready on the lips of most so-called doctors; for he would say: "O fool, you are not treating the sick man but almost educating him, as if he needed to become a doctor and not healthy!" KLE.
ΚΛ. οὐκοῦν λέγων τὰ τοιαῦτα ὀρθῶς ἂν λέγοι;
Therefore, speaking such things, would he not speak correctly?
ΑΘ. τάχʼ ἄν, εἰ προσδιανοοῖτό γε ὡς ὅστις περὶ νόμων οὕτω διεξέρχεται, καθάπερ ἡμεῖς τὰ νῦν, παιδεύει τοὺς πολίτας ἀλλʼ οὐ νομοθετεῖ.
ATH. Perhaps, if he should also think in addition that whoever discusses laws in this way, as we are doing now, is educating the citizens but not legislating.
ἆρʼ οὖν οὐ καὶ τοῦτʼ ἂν πρὸς τρόπου λέγειν φαίνοιτο;
Would not this too, then, seem to be to the point?
ΚΛ. ἴσως.
KLE. Perhaps.
ΑΘ. εὐτυχὲς δὲ ἡμῶν τὸ παρὸν γέγονεν.
ATH. But our present situation has turned out to be fortunate.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον δή;
KLE. What sort of thing indeed?