§4.720ΑΘ. πότερον οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ τεταγμένος ἐπὶ τοῖς νόμοις μηδὲν τοιοῦτον προαγορεύῃ ἐν ἀρχῇ τῶν νόμων, ἀλλʼ εὐθὺς ὃ δεῖ ποιεῖν καὶ μὴ φράζῃ τε, καὶ ἐπαπειλήσας τὴν ζημίαν, ἐπʼ ἄλλον τρέπηται νόμον, παραμυθίας δὲ καὶ πειθοῦς τοῖς νομοθετουμένοις μηδὲ ἓν προσδιδῷ;
ATH. Shall the one appointed over our laws, then, announce nothing of this kind at the beginning of the laws, but immediately declare what must and must not be done, and having threatened the penalty, turn to another law, adding not even a single word of consolation and persuasion to those for whom he legislates?
καθάπερ ἰατρὸς δέ τις, ὁ μὲν οὕτως, ὁ δʼ ἐκείνως ἡμᾶς εἴωθεν ἑκάστοτε θεραπεύειν— ἀναμιμνῃσκώμεθα δὲ τὸν τρόπον ἑκάτερον, ἵνα τοῦ νομοθέτου δεώμεθα, καθάπερ ἰατροῦ δέοιντο ἂν παῖδες τὸν πρᾳότατον αὐτὸν θεραπεύειν τρόπον ἑαυτούς.
Just as some doctors are accustomed to treat us on each occasion, some in this way and others in that way—and let us recall both ways, so that we may entreat the lawmaker, just as children might entreat a doctor to treat them in the gentlest way.
οἷον δὴ τί λέγομεν;
What kind of thing do we mean?
εἰσὶν πού τινες ἰατροί, φαμέν, καί τινες ὑπηρέται τῶν ἰατρῶν, ἰατροὺς δὲ καλοῦμεν δήπου καὶ τούτους.
There are, we say, surely some doctors, and some assistants of doctors, whom we also surely call doctors.
ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
CL. Entirely so.
ΑΘ. ἐάντε γε ἐλεύθεροι ὦσιν ἐάντε δοῦλοι, κατʼ ἐπίταξιν δὲ τῶν δεσποτῶν καὶ θεωρίαν καὶ κατʼ ἐμπειρίαν τὴν τέχνην κτῶνται, κατὰ φύσιν δὲ μή, καθάπερ οἱ ἐλεύθεροι αὐτοί τε μεμαθήκασιν οὕτω τούς τε αὑτῶν διδάσκουσι παῖδας.
ATH. Whether they are free men or slaves, who acquire their art by the command of their masters and by observation and experience, but not according to nature, in the way that the free men have both learned themselves and teach their own children.
θείης ἂν ταῦτα δύο γένη τῶν καλουμένων ἰατρῶν;
Would you set down these as two kinds of those called doctors?
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
CL. How indeed could he not?
ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν καὶ συννοεῖς ὅτι, δούλων καὶ ἐλευθέρων ὄντων τῶν καμνόντων ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι, τοὺς μὲν δούλους σχεδόν τι οἱ δοῦλοι τὰ πολλὰ ἰατρεύουσιν περιτρέχοντες καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἰατρείοις περιμένοντες, καὶ οὔτε τινὰ λόγον ἑκάστου πέρι νοσήματος ἑκάστου τῶν οἰκετῶν οὐδεὶς τῶν τοιούτων ἰατρῶν δίδωσιν οὐδʼ ἀποδέχεται, προστάξας δʼ αὐτῷ τὰ δόξαντα ἐξ ἐμπειρίας, ὡς ἀκριβῶς εἰδώς, καθάπερ τύραννος αὐθαδῶς, οἴχεται ἀποπηδήσας πρὸς ἄλλον κάμνοντα οἰκέτην, καὶ ῥᾳστώνην οὕτω τῷ δεσπότῃ παρασκευάζει τῶν καμνόντων τῆς ἐπιμελείας·
ATH. Do you also perceive, then, that since there are slaves and free men among the sick in the cities, the slave doctors for the most part run about and cure the slaves, waiting at the dispensaries, and none of such doctors gives any account concerning each disease of each of the domestic servants, nor accepts any; but prescribing what seems good from experience, as if knowing accurately, like a tyrant self-willedly, he jumps off and is gone to another sick servant, and thus procures for the master a relief from the care of the sick?
ὁ δὲ ἐλεύθερος ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πλεῖστον τὰ τῶν ἐλευθέρων νοσήματα θεραπεύει τε καὶ ἐπισκοπεῖ, καὶ ταῦτα ἐξετάζων ἀπʼ ἀρχῆς καὶ κατὰ φύσιν, τῷ κάμνοντι κοινούμενος αὐτῷ τε καὶ τοῖς φίλοις, ἅμα μὲν αὐτὸς μανθάνει τι παρὰ τῶν νοσούντων, ἅμα δὲ καὶ καθʼ ὅσον οἷός τέ ἐστιν, διδάσκει τὸν ἀσθενοῦντα αὐτόν, καὶ οὐ πρότερον ἐπέταξεν πρὶν ἄν πῃ συμπείσῃ, τότε δὲ μετὰ πειθοῦς ἡμερούμενον ἀεὶ παρασκευάζων τὸν κάμνοντα, εἰς τὴν ὑγίειαν ἄγων, ἀποτελεῖν πειρᾶται;
But the free doctor for the most part treats and examines the diseases of free men, and investigating these from the beginning and according to nature, conferring with the sick man himself and his friends, he both learns something himself from the sick and, as far as he is able, teaches the ailing person himself, and does not prescribe before he has in some way persuaded him, and only then, always rendering the sick man gentle with persuasion as he leads him to health, does he attempt to complete the cure?
πότερον οὕτως ἢ ἐκείνως ἰατρός τε ἰώμενος ἀμείνων καὶ γυμναστὴς γυμνάζων· διχῇ τὴν μίαν ἀποτελῶν δύναμιν, ἢ μοναχῇ καὶ κατὰ τὸ χεῖρον τοῖν δυοῖν καὶ ἀγριώτερον ἀπεργαζόμενος;
Is a doctor healing in this way or in that way better, or a trainer training in this way or that—each achieving the single power in a double way, or in a single way and according to the worse and wilder of the two?
ΚΛ. πολύ που διαφέρον, ὦ ξένε, τὸ διπλῇ.
CL. The double way, O guest, is far superior.
ΑΘ. βούλει δὴ καὶ θεασώμεθα τὸ διπλοῦν τοῦτο καὶ ἁπλοῦν ἐν ταῖς νομοθεσίαις αὐταῖς γιγνόμενον;
ATH. Do you wish, then, that we also observe this double and single way occurring in the legislations themselves?
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὐ βούλομαι;
CL. How indeed should I not wish it?
§4.721ΑΘ. φέρε δὴ πρὸς θεῶν, τίνʼ ἄρα πρῶτον νόμον θεῖτʼ ἂν ὁ νομοθέτης;
ATH. Come then, by the gods, what law first, then, would the lawmaker establish?
ἆρʼ οὐ κατὰ φύσιν τὴν περὶ γενέσεως ἀρχὴν πρώτην πόλεων πέρι κατακοσμήσει ταῖς τάξεσιν;
Would he not, according to nature, first arrange the beginning concerning birth with respect to cities?
ΚΛ. τί μήν;
CL. What else?
ΑΘ. ἀρχὴ δʼ ἐστὶ τῶν γενέσεων πάσαις πόλεσιν ἆρʼ οὐχ ἡ τῶν γάμων σύμμειξις καὶ κοινωνία;
ATH. And is not the beginning of births for all cities the mixture and association of marriages?
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
CL. How indeed could it not be?
ΑΘ. γαμικοὶ δὴ νόμοι πρῶτοι κινδυνεύουσιν τιθέμενοι καλῶς ἂν τίθεσθαι πρὸς ὀρθότητα πάσῃ πόλει.
ATH. It is likely, then, that marriage laws, being established first, would be beautifully established in accordance with correctness for every city.
ΚΛ. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
CL. Entirely so.
ΑΘ. λέγωμεν δὴ πρῶτον τὸν ἁπλοῦν, ἔχοι δʼ ἄν πως ἴσως ὧδε— γαμεῖν δέ, ἐπειδὰν ἐτῶν ᾖ τις τριάκοντα, μέχρι ἐτῶν πέντε καὶ τριάκοντα, εἰ δὲ μή, ζημιοῦσθαι χρήμασίν τε καὶ ἀτιμίᾳ, χρήμασι μὲν τόσοις καὶ τόσοις, τῇ καὶ τῇ δὲ ἀτιμίᾳ. ὁ μὲν ἁπλοῦς ἔστω τις τοιοῦτος περὶ γάμων, ὁ δὲ διπλοῦς ὅδε—γαμεῖν δέ, ἐπειδὰν ἐτῶν ᾖ τις τριάκοντα, μέχρι τῶν πέντε καὶ τριάκοντα, διανοηθέντα ὡς ἔστιν ᾗ τὸ ἀνθρώπινον γένος φύσει τινὶ μετείληφεν ἀθανασίας, οὗ καὶ πέφυκεν ἐπιθυμίαν ἴσχειν πᾶς πᾶσαν· τὸ γὰρ γενέσθαι κλεινὸν καὶ μὴ ἀνώνυμον κεῖσθαι τετελευτηκότα τοῦ τοιούτου ἐστὶν ἐπιθυμία.
ATH. Let us state, then, first the single one, which would perhaps be somewhat like this: "A man shall marry when he is thirty years of age up to thirty-five years; otherwise, he shall be punished with money and dishonor, with so much money, and with such and such dishonor." Let the single one concerning marriages be of this kind, and the double one be this: "A man shall marry when he is thirty years of age up to thirty-five, reflecting that there is a way in which the human race by a certain nature has shared in immortality, for which everyone naturally possesses every desire; for to become famous and not to lie nameless when deceased is a desire of this kind.
γένος οὖν ἀνθρώπων ἐστίν τι συμφυὲς τοῦ παντὸς χρόνου, ὃ διὰ τέλους αὐτῷ συνέπεται καὶ συνέψεται, τούτῳ τῷ τρόπῳ ἀθάνατον ὄν, τῷ παῖδας παίδων καταλειπόμενον, ταὐτὸν καὶ ἓν ὂν ἀεί, γενέσει τῆς ἀθανασίας μετειληφέναι·
The race of humans, then, is something co-natural with all time, which accompanies it through to the end and will accompany it, being immortal in this way: by leaving behind children of children, being always the same and one, it has shared in immortality by means of birth.
τούτου δὴ ἀποστερεῖν ἑκόντα ἑαυτὸν οὐδέποτε ὅσιον, ἐκ προνοίας δὲ ἀποστερεῖ ὃς ἂν παίδων καὶ γυναικὸς ἀμελῇ.
To deprive oneself of this willingly is never holy, and he who neglects children and a wife deprives himself of it by design.
πειθόμενος μὲν οὖν τῷ νόμῳ ἀζήμιος ἀπαλλάττοιτο ἄν, μὴ πειθόμενος δὲ αὖ, μηδὲ γαμῶν ἔτη τριάκοντα γεγονὼς καὶ πέντε, ζημιούσθω μὲν κατʼ ἐνιαυτὸν τόσῳ καὶ τόσῳ, ἵνα μὴ δοκῇ τὴν μοναυλίαν οἱ κέρδος καὶ ῥᾳστώνην φέρειν, καὶ μὴ μετεχέτω δὲ τιμῶν ὧν ἂν οἱ νεώτεροι ἐν τῇ πόλει τοὺς πρεσβυτέρους αὑτῶν τιμῶσιν ἑκάστοτε. τοῦτον δὴ παρʼ ἐκεῖνον τὸν νόμον ἀκούσαντα ἔξεστιν περὶ ἑνὸς ἑκάστου διανοηθῆναι, πότερον αὐτοὺς διπλοῦς οὕτω δεῖ γίγνεσθαι τῷ μήκει τὸ σμικρότατον, διὰ τὸ πείθειν τε ἅμα καὶ ἀπειλεῖν, ἢ τῷ ἀπειλεῖν μόνον χρωμένους ἁπλοῦς γίγνεσθαι τοῖς μήκεσιν.
Obeying the law, then, he would depart without penalty, but if he does not obey, and does not marry when he has reached thirty-five years of age, let him be fined annually by so much and so much, so that his single life may not seem to bring him gain and ease, and let him not share in the honors with which the younger men in the city honor their elders on each occasion." Hearing this law alongside that one, it is possible to reflect concerning each single matter whether they ought to become double in this way, being the shortest in length because of persuading and threatening at the same time, or become single in their lengths by using threatening alone.