§4.718ΑΘ.
τῷ δὲ μὴ παραλείπειν μνήμην ἐνδελεχῆ παρεχόμενον, τούτῳ μάλιστʼ ἀεὶ πρεσβεύειν, δαπάνης τε τῆς διδομένης ὑπὸ τύχης τὸ μέτριον τοῖς κεκμηκόσιν νέμοντα.
ATH. And by not omitting to provide a continuous memory [for the deceased], one must always honor him most of all, distributing a moderate portion of the expense given by fortune to those who have labored.
ταῦτʼ ἂν ποιοῦντες καὶ κατὰ ταῦτα ζῶντες ἑκάστοτε ἕκαστοι τὴν ἀξίαν ἂν παρὰ θεῶν καὶ ὅσοι κρείττονες ἡμῶν κομιζοίμεθα, ἐν ἐλπίσιν ἀγαθαῖς διάγοντες τὸ πλεῖστον τοῦ βίου.
Doing these things and living according to them at all times, each of us would receive our due from the gods and from all those who are better than we are, passing the greatest part of our lives in good hopes.
ἃ δὲ πρὸς ἐκγόνους καὶ συγγενεῖς καὶ φίλους καὶ πολίτας, ὅσα τε ξενικὰ πρὸς θεῶν θεραπεύματα καὶ ὁμιλίας συμπάντων τούτων ἀποτελοῦντα τὸν αὑτοῦ βίον φαιδρυνάμενον κατὰ νόμον κοσμεῖν δεῖ, τῶν νόμων αὐτῶν ἡ διέξοδος, τὰ μὲν πείθουσα, τὰ δὲ μὴ ὑπείκοντα πειθοῖ τῶν ἠθῶν βίᾳ καὶ δίκῃ κολάζουσα, τὴν πόλιν ἡμῖν συμβουληθέντων θεῶν μακαρίαν τε καὶ εὐδαίμονα ἀποτελεῖ·
On the other hand, regarding the duties toward offspring, relatives, friends, and citizens, and all the services and associations with foreigners required on behalf of the gods—all of which one must fulfill to brighten and adorn one's own life according to law—the detailed exposition of the laws themselves, partly by persuading and partly by punishing through force and justice those characters that do not yield to persuasion, will, with the gods counseling us, render our city blessed and happy.
ἃ δὲ χρὴ μὲν αὖ καὶ ἀναγκαῖον εἰπεῖν νομοθέτην ὅστις ἅπερ ἐγὼ διανοεῖται, ἐν δὲ σχήματι νόμου ἀναρμοστεῖ λεγόμενα, τούτων πέρι δοκεῖ μοι δεῖγμα προενεγκόντα αὑτῷ τε καὶ ἐκείνοις οἷς νομοθετήσει, τὰ λοιπὰ πάντα εἰς δύναμιν διεξελθόντα, τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ἄρχεσθαι τῆς θέσεως τῶν νόμων.
But as for those things which, on the other hand, a lawmaker who thinks as I do must and of necessity speak, but which are unsuitable when spoken in the form of a law—concerning these, it seems to me that after presenting a sample to himself and to those for whom he will legislate, and going through all the remaining things to the best of his power, he should thereafter begin the establishment of the laws.
ἔστιν δὲ δὴ τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐν τίνι μάλιστα σχήματι κείμενα;
In what form, then, are such things chiefly set down?
οὐ πάνυ ῥᾴδιον ἐν ἑνὶ περιλαβόντα εἰπεῖν αὐτὰ οἷόν τινι τύπῳ, ἀλλʼ οὑτωσί τινα τρόπον λάβωμεν, ἄν τι δυνώμεθα περὶ αὐτῶν βεβαιώσασθαι.
It is not altogether easy to state them by comprising them in a single pattern, as it were, but let us grasp them in some such way as this, in case we are able to establish something secure about them.
ΚΛ. λέγε τὸ ποῖον.
CL. State what kind of thing you mean.
ΑΘ. βουλοίμην ἂν αὐτοὺς ὡς εὐπειθεστάτους πρὸς ἀρετὴν εἶναι, καὶ δῆλον ὅτι πειράσεται τοῦτο ὁ νομοθέτης ἐν ἁπάσῃ ποιεῖν τῇ νομοθεσίᾳ.
ATH. I should wish them to be as persuadable as possible toward virtue, and it is clear that the lawmaker will try to achieve this in all his legislation.
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
CL. How indeed could he not?
ΑΘ. τὰ τοίνυν δὴ λεχθέντα ἔδοξέν τί μοι προὔργου δρᾶν εἰς τὸ περὶ ὧν ἂν παραινῇ, μὴ παντάπασιν ὠμῆς ψυχῆς λαβόμενα, ἡμερώτερόν τε ἂν ἀκούειν καὶ εὐμενέστερον· ὥστε εἰ καὶ μὴ μέγα τι, σμικρὸν δέ, τὸν ἀκούοντα ὅπερ φησὶν εὐμενέστερον γιγνόμενον εὐμαθέστερον ἀπεργάσεται, πᾶν ἀγαπητόν.
ATH. Well then, the things just said seemed to me to do something useful toward making them hear more gently and with greater goodwill concerning the things he advises, rather than being seized when they possess an entirely savage soul; so that even if it is not something major, but minor, making the hearer better disposed to what is said and thereby easier to teach, it is altogether welcome.
οὐ γὰρ πολλή τις εὐπέτεια οὐδὲ ἀφθονία τῶν προθυμουμένων ὡς ἀρίστων ὅτι μάλιστα καὶ ὡς τάχιστα γίγνεσθαι, τὸν δὲ Ἡσίοδον οἱ πολλοὶ σοφὸν ἀποφαίνουσι λέγοντα ὡς
"ἡ μὲν ἐπὶ τὴν κακότητα ὁδὸς λεία καὶ ἀνιδιτὶ παρέχει πορεύεσθαι, μάλα βραχεῖα οὖσα, τῆς δὲ ἀρετῆς,"
φησίν,
"
ἱδρῶτα θεοὶ προπάροιθεν ἔθηκαν
ἀθάνατοι, μακρὸς δὲ καὶ ὄρθιος οἶμος ἐς αὐτήν,
καὶ τρηχὺς τὸ πρῶτον· ἐπὴν δʼ εἰς ἄκρον ἵκηαι,
ῥηιδίη δὴ ʼπειτα φέρειν, χαλεπή περ ἐοῦσα. "
For there is no great ease nor abundance of those who are eager to become as good as possible and as quickly as possible; and the many declare Hesiod to be wise for saying that "The road to wickedness is smooth, and offers to be walked upon without sweat, being very short; but before virtue," he says, "the immortal gods have placed sweat; and the path to it is long and steep, and rough at first; but when you reach the top, it is then easy to travel, hard though it was." CL.
§4.719ΚΛ. καὶ καλῶς γʼ ἔοικεν λέγοντι.
And he seems to speak beautifully indeed.
ΑΘ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ATH. Entirely so.
ὁ δὲ προάγων λόγος ὅ γέ μοι ἀπείργασται, βούλομαι ὑμῖν εἰς τὸ μέσον αὐτὸ θεῖναι.
Now, as for the preceding argument that has been worked out by me, I want to place it in the midst for you.
ΚΛ. τίθει δή.
CL. Place it, then.
ΑΘ. λέγωμεν δὴ τῷ νομοθέτῃ διαλεγόμενοι τόδε· εἰπὲ ἡμῖν, ὦ νομοθέτα·
ATH.
εἴπερ ὅτι χρὴ πράττειν ἡμᾶς καὶ λέγειν εἰδείης, ἆρα οὐ δῆλον ὅτι καὶ ἂν εἴποις;
Let us say, then, in conversation with the lawmaker, this: "Tell us, O lawmaker, if you indeed know what we ought to do and say, is it not clear that you would also tell us?" CL.
ΚΛ. ἀναγκαῖον.
Necessarily.
ΑΘ.
σμικρῷ μὲν δὴ πρόσθεν ἆρα οὐκ ἠκούσαμέν σου λέγοντος ὡς τὸν νομοθέτην οὐ δεῖ τοῖς ποιηταῖς ἐπιτρέπειν ποιεῖν ὃ ἂν αὐτοῖς ᾖ φίλον; οὐ γὰρ ἂν εἰδεῖεν τί ποτʼ ἐναντίον τοῖς νόμοις ἂν λέγοντες βλάπτοιεν τὴν πόλιν.
ATH.
ΚΛ. ἀληθῆ μέντοι λέγεις.
Just a little while ago, then, did we not hear you say that the lawmaker must not permit the poets to compose whatever is pleasing to them? For they would not know what they might say in opposition to the laws and thereby harm the city.
ΑΘ. ὑπὲρ δὴ τῶν ποιητῶν εἰ τάδε λέγοιμεν πρὸς αὐτόν, ἆρʼ ἂν τὰ λεχθέντα εἴη μέτρια;
CL.
ΚΛ. ποῖα;
Indeed, you speak the truth.
ΑΘ. τάδε·
ATH.
παλαιὸς μῦθος, ὦ νομοθέτα, ὑπό τε αὐτῶν ἡμῶν ἀεὶ λεγόμενός ἐστιν καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις πᾶσιν συνδεδογμένος, ὅτι ποιητής, ὁπόταν ἐν τῷ τρίποδι τῆς Μούσης καθίζηται, τότε οὐκ ἔμφρων ἐστίν, οἷον δὲ κρήνη τις τὸ ἐπιὸν ῥεῖν ἑτοίμως ἐᾷ, καὶ τῆς τέχνης οὔσης μιμήσεως ἀναγκάζεται, ἐναντίως ἀλλήλοις ἀνθρώπους ποιῶν διατιθεμένους, ἐναντία λέγειν αὑτῷ πολλάκις, οἶδεν δὲ οὔτʼ εἰ ταῦτα οὔτʼ εἰ θάτερα ἀληθῆ τῶν λεγομένων.
Now on behalf of the poets, if we were to say the following to him, would what is said be moderate?
τῷ δὲ νομοθέτῃ τοῦτο οὐκ ἔστι ποιεῖν ἐν τῷ νόμῳ, δύο περὶ ἑνός, ἀλλὰ ἕνα περὶ ἑνὸς ἀεὶ δεῖ λόγον ἀποφαίνεσθαι.
CL.
σκέψαι δʼ ἐξ αὐτῶν τῶν ὑπὸ σοῦ νυνδὴ λεχθέντων.
What sort of things?
οὔσης γὰρ ταφῆς τῆς μὲν ὑπερβεβλημένης, τῆς δὲ ἐλλειπούσης, τῆς δὲ μετρίας, τὴν μίαν ἑλόμενος σύ, τὴν μέσην, ταύτην προστάττεις καὶ ἐπῄνεσας ἁπλῶς·
ATH. These things: "O lawmaker, there is an ancient myth, always told by us ourselves and agreed upon by all others, that a poet, whenever he sits upon the tripod of the Muse, is then not in his right mind, but like a fountain readily allows what flows in to run out; and since his art is imitation, he is compelled, when creating human beings placed in opposition to one another, to contradict himself often, and he knows neither whether these things or those of the things said are true. But it is not permitted for the lawmaker to do this in the law—namely, to say two things about one matter—but he must always declare one rule about one matter. And consider this from the very things spoken by you just now. For though there are burials that are excessive, others deficient, and others moderate, you, choosing one—the middle—prescribe and praise this simply.
ἐγὼ δέ, εἰ μὲν γυνή μοι διαφέρουσα εἴη πλούτῳ καὶ θάπτειν αὑτὴν διακελεύοιτο ἐν τῷ ποιήματι, τὸν ὑπερβάλλοντα ἂν τάφον ἐπαινοίην, φειδωλὸς δʼ αὖ τις καὶ πένης ἀνὴρ τὸν καταδεᾶ, μέτρον δὲ οὐσίας κεκτημένος καὶ μέτριος αὐτὸς ὢν τὸν αὐτὸν ἂν ἐπαινέσαι.
But I, if on the one hand a woman preeminent in wealth were in my poem and ordered herself to be buried, would praise the excessive burial; and if, on the other hand, some stingy and poor man were there, I would praise the deficient one; and if someone possessed a moderate amount of property and was himself moderate, he would praise the same one as you.
σοὶ δὲ οὐχ οὕτω ῥητέον ὡς νῦν εἶπες μέτριον εἰπών, ἀλλὰ τί τὸ μέτριον καὶ ὁπόσον ῥητέον, ἢ τὸν τοιοῦτον λόγον μήπω σοι διανοοῦ γίγνεσθαι νόμον
.
But you must not speak as you did just now, simply by using the word 'moderate,' but you must state what the moderate is and how much it is; otherwise, do not yet think that such a statement of yours can become a law." CL.
ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
You speak most truly.