§4.712ΑΘ. ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ συμπάσης δυνάμεως ὁ αὐτὸς πέρι λόγος, ὡς ὅταν εἰς ταὐτὸν τῷ φρονεῖν τε καὶ σωφρονεῖν ἡ μεγίστη δύναμις ἐν ἀνθρώπῳ συμπέσῃ, τότε πολιτείας τῆς ἀρίστης καὶ νόμων τῶν τοιούτων φύεται γένεσις, ἄλλως δὲ οὐ μή ποτε γένηται.
ATH. And likewise, the same argument holds concerning all power in general: that when the greatest power in a human coincides in the same place with wisdom and temperance, then the generation of the best constitution and of such laws naturally arises, but in no other way will it ever come to be.
ταῦτα μὲν οὖν καθαπερεὶ μῦθός τις λεχθεὶς κεχρησμῳδήσθω, καὶ ἐπιδεδείχθω τῇ μὲν χαλεπὸν ὂν τὸ πόλιν εὔνομον γίγνεσθαι, τῇ δʼ, εἴπερ γένοιτο ὃ λέγομεν, πάντων τάχιστόν τε καὶ ῥᾷστον μακρῷ.
Let these things, then, spoken as if they were a kind of myth, be delivered as an oracle, and let it have been demonstrated on the one hand that it is difficult for a well-ordered city to come to be, but on the other hand, if indeed what we say should happen, it is by far the quickest and easiest of all.
ΚΛ. πῶς;
CL. How?
ΑΘ. πειρώμεθα προσαρμόττοντες τῇ πόλει σοι, καθάπερ παῖδες πρεσβῦται, πλάττειν τῷ λόγῳ τοὺς νόμους.
ATH. Let us attempt, like elderly children, to shape the laws in speech, fitting them to your city.
ΚΛ. ἴωμεν δὴ καὶ μὴ μέλλωμεν ἔτι.
CL. Let us proceed, then, and delay no longer.
ΑΘ. θεὸν δὴ πρὸς τὴν τῆς πόλεως κατασκευὴν ἐπικαλώμεθα· ὁ δὲ ἀκούσειέν τε, καὶ ἀκούσας ἵλεως εὐμενής τε ἡμῖν ἔλθοι συνδιακοσμήσων τήν τε πόλιν καὶ τοὺς νόμους.
ATH. Let us call upon God, then, for the construction of the city; and may He hear us, and having heard, may He come to us propitious and benevolent, to help us order both the city and the laws.
ΚΛ. ἔλθοι γὰρ οὖν.
CL. May He indeed come!
ΑΘ. ἀλλὰ τίνα δή ποτε πολιτείαν ἔχομεν ἐν νῷ τῇ πόλει προστάττειν;
ATH. But what constitution indeed do we have in mind to impose upon the city?
ΚΛ. οἷον δὴ τί λέγεις βουληθείς;
CL. What sort of thing do you mean by this?
φράζʼ ἔτι σαφέστερον.
Speak still more clearly.
οἷον δημοκρατίαν τινὰ ἢ ὀλιγαρχίαν ἢ ἀριστοκρατίαν ἢ βασιλικήν;
For instance, some sort of democracy, or oligarchy, or aristocracy, or a royal one?
οὐ γὰρ δὴ τυραννίδα γέ που λέγοις ἄν, ὥς γʼ ἡμεῖς ἂν οἰηθεῖμεν.
For surely you would not speak of a tyranny, as we at least would suppose.
ΑΘ. φέρε δὴ τοίνυν, πότερος ὑμῶν ἀποκρίνασθαι πρότερος ἂν ἐθέλοι, τὴν οἴκοι πολιτείαν εἰπὼν τίς τούτων ἐστίν;
ATH. Come then, which of you would be willing to answer first, by saying which of these is the constitution at his home?
ΜΕ. μῶν οὖν τὸν πρεσβύτερον ἐμὲ δικαιότερον εἰπεῖν πρότερον;
ME. Is it not then more just that I, being the elder, should speak first?
ΚΛ. ἴσως.
CL. Perhaps.
ΜΕ. καὶ μὴν συννοῶν γε, ὦ ξένε, τὴν ἐν Λακεδαίμονι πολιτείαν οὐκ ἔχω σοι φράζειν οὕτως ἥντινα προσαγορεύειν αὐτὴν δεῖ.
ME. Indeed, stranger, when I reflect on the constitution in Lacedaemon, I cannot tell you offhand what one ought to call it.
καὶ γὰρ τυραννίδι δοκεῖ μοι προσεοικέναι—τὸ γὰρ τῶν ἐφόρων θαυμαστὸν ὡς τυραννικὸν ἐν αὐτῇ γέγονε —καί τις ἐνίοτέ μοι φαίνεται πασῶν τῶν πόλεων δημοκρατουμένη μάλιστʼ ἐοικέναι.
For it seems to me to resemble a tyranny—for the power of the ephors has become wonderfully tyrannical in it—and yet at times it seems to me to resemble most of all cities a democracy.
τὸ δʼ αὖ μὴ φάναι ἀριστοκρατίαν αὐτὴν εἶναι παντάπασιν ἄτοπον· καὶ μὲν δὴ βασιλεία γε διὰ βίου τʼ ἐστὶν ἐν αὐτῇ καὶ ἀρχαιοτάτη πασῶν καὶ πρὸς πάντων ἀνθρώπων καὶ ἡμῶν αὐτῶν λεγομένη.
On the other hand, to deny that it is an aristocracy is altogether absurd; and indeed there is a lifelong kingship in it, which is the most ancient of all, and so called by all men and by ourselves.
ἐγὼ δὲ οὕτω νῦν ἐξαίφνης ἂν ἐρωτηθείς, ὄντως, ὅπερ εἶπον, οὐκ ἔχω διορισάμενος εἰπεῖν τίς τούτων ἐστὶν τῶν πολιτειῶν.
Thus, being asked now so suddenly, I really cannot, as I said, define and state which of these constitutions it is.
ΚΛ. ταὐτόν σοι πάθος, ὦ Μέγιλλε, καταφαίνομαι πεπονθέναι· πάνυ γὰρ ἀπορῶ τὴν ἐν Κνωσῷ πολιτείαν τούτων τινὰ διισχυριζόμενος εἰπεῖν.
CL. I appear, Megillus, to have suffered the same experience as you; for I am entirely at a loss to assert which of these the constitution in Knossos is.
§4.713ΑΘ. ὄντως γάρ, ὦ ἄριστοι, πολιτειῶν μετέχετε·
ATH.
ἃς δὲ ὠνομάκαμεν νῦν, οὐκ εἰσὶν πολιτεῖαι, πόλεων δὲ οἰκήσεις δεσποζομένων τε καὶ δουλευουσῶν μέρεσιν ἑαυτῶν τισι, τὸ τοῦ δεσπότου δὲ ἑκάστη προσαγορεύεται κράτος.
For indeed, excellent friends, you participate in real constitutions; but those which we have now named are not constitutions, but settlements of cities ruled and enslaved by some parts of themselves, and each is named after the power of the master.
χρῆν δʼ εἴπερ του τοιούτου τὴν πόλιν ἔδει ἐπονομάζεσθαι, τὸ τοῦ ἀληθῶς τῶν τὸν νοῦν ἐχόντων δεσπόζοντος θεοῦ ὄνομα λέγεσθαι.
If indeed the city had to be named after any such thing, it ought to be called by the name of the God who truly rules over those who possess reason.
ΚΛ. τίς δʼ ὁ θεός;
CL. And who is the God?
ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν μύθῳ σμικρά γʼ ἔτι προσχρηστέον, εἰ μέλλομεν ἐμμελῶς πως δηλῶσαι τὸ νῦν ἐρωτώμενον;
ATH. Must we then still make use of a little myth, if we are to declare in some fitting way what is now being asked?
ΚΛ. οὐκοῦν χρὴ ταύτῃ δρᾶν;
CL. Ought we not then to do so?
ΑΘ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ATH. Quite so.
τῶν γὰρ δὴ πόλεων ὧν ἔμπροσθε τὰς συνοικήσεις διήλθομεν, ἔτι προτέρα τούτων πάμπολυ λέγεταί τις ἀρχή τε καὶ οἴκησις γεγονέναι ἐπὶ Κρόνου μάλʼ εὐδαίμων, ἧς μίμημα ἔχουσά ἐστιν ἥτις τῶν νῦν ἄριστα οἰκεῖται.
For indeed, of the cities whose settlements we described before, a certain rule and settlement, far prior to these, is said to have existed in the time of Cronus, which was exceedingly happy, and of which whichever of the present cities is best governed possesses an imitation.
ΚΛ. σφόδρʼ ἄν, ὡς ἔοικʼ, εἴη περὶ αὐτῆς δέον ἀκούειν.
CL. It seems, indeed, that to hear about it is highly necessary.
ΑΘ. ἐμοὶ γοῦν φαίνεται· διὸ καὶ παρήγαγον αὐτὴν εἰς τὸ μέσον τοῖς λόγοις.
ATH. It appears so to me at least; for which reason also I brought it forward into the midst of our discussion.
ΚΛ. ὀρθότατά γε δρῶν· καὶ τόν γε ἑξῆς περαίνων ἂν μῦθον, εἴπερ προσήκων ἐστίν, μάλʼ ὀρθῶς ἂν ποιοίης.
CL. Doing most correctly; and you would do most rightly in carrying through to the end the subsequent myth, if indeed it is appropriate.
ΑΘ. δραστέον ὡς λέγετε.
ATH. It must be done as you say.
φήμην τοίνυν παραδεδέγμεθα τῆς τῶν τότε μακαρίας ζωῆς ὡς ἄφθονά τε καὶ αὐτόματα πάντʼ εἶχεν.
We have received, then, a report of the happy life of those times, how they had all things in abundance and spontaneously.
ἡ δὲ τούτων αἰτία λέγεται τοιάδε τις. γιγνώσκων ὁ Κρόνος ἄρα, καθάπερ ἡμεῖς διεληλύθαμεν, ὡς ἀνθρωπεία φύσις οὐδεμία ἱκανὴ τὰ ἀνθρώπινα διοικοῦσα αὐτοκράτωρ πάντα, μὴ οὐχ ὕβρεώς τε καὶ ἀδικίας μεστοῦσθαι, ταῦτʼ οὖν διανοούμενος ἐφίστη τότε βασιλέας τε καὶ ἄρχοντας ταῖς πόλεσιν ἡμῶν, οὐκ ἀνθρώπους ἀλλὰ γένους θειοτέρου τε καὶ ἀμείνονος, δαίμονας, οἷον νῦν ἡμεῖς δρῶμεν τοῖς ποιμνίοις καὶ ὅσων ἥμεροί εἰσιν ἀγέλαι· οὐ βοῦς βοῶν οὐδὲ αἶγας αἰγῶν ἄρχοντας ποιοῦμεν αὐτοῖσί τινας, ἀλλʼ ἡμεῖς αὐτῶν δεσπόζομεν, ἄμεινον ἐκείνων γένος.
And the cause of these things is said to be something like this: Cronus, knowing indeed, as we have explained, that no human nature is capable, when managing all human affairs with absolute power, of not becoming full of insolence and injustice—with this in mind, he then appointed as kings and rulers of our cities not humans, but beings of a more divine and better race, namely daemons, just as we do now with our flocks and whatever herds of tame animals we have; we do not make bulls the rulers of bulls, nor goats of goats, but we ourselves rule over them, being a better race than they.
ταὐτὸν δὴ καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἄρα καὶ φιλάνθρωπος ὤν, τὸ γένος ἄμεινον ἡμῶν ἐφίστη τὸ τῶν δαιμόνων, ὃ διὰ πολλῆς μὲν αὐτοῖς ῥᾳστώνης, πολλῆς δʼ ἡμῖν, ἐπιμελούμενον ἡμῶν, εἰρήνην τε καὶ αἰδῶ καὶ εὐνομίαν καὶ ἀφθονίαν δίκης παρεχόμενον, ἀστασίαστα καὶ εὐδαίμονα τὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀπηργάζετο γένη.
In the very same way indeed, God also, being a lover of mankind, appointed the race of daemons, which is a better race than ours, which, with great ease to themselves and as much to us, by caring for us and providing peace, reverence, good order, and abundance of justice, made the races of men free from faction and happy.