§4.710ΑΘ. τόδε·
ATH.
τυραννουμένην μοι δότε τὴν πόλιν,
φήσει· τύραννος δʼ ἔστω νέος καὶ μνήμων καὶ εὐμαθὴς καὶ ἀνδρεῖος καὶ μεγαλοπρεπὴς φύσει· ὃ δὲ καὶ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἐλέγομεν δεῖν ἕπεσθαι σύμπασιν τοῖς τῆς ἀρετῆς μέρεσι, καὶ νῦν τῇ τυραννουμένῃ ψυχῇ τοῦτο συνεπέσθω, ἐὰν μέλλῃ τῶν ἄλλων ὑπαρχόντων ὄφελος εἶναί τι.
This: "Give me a city ruled by a tyrant," he will say; "and let the tyrant be young, mindful, quick to learn, courageous, and magnificent by nature; and that which we were also saying in the previous discussion must follow all the parts of virtue, let this now also follow the tyrannized soul, if there is to be any benefit from the other existing qualities." CL.
ΚΛ. σωφροσύνην μοι δοκεῖ φράζειν, ὦ Μέγιλλε, δεῖν εἶναι τὴν συνεπομένην ὁ ξένος.
The stranger seems to me, Megillus, to say that temperance is that which must follow.
ἦ γάρ;
Is it not so?
ΑΘ. τὴν δημώδη γε, ὦ Κλεινία, καὶ οὐχ ἥν τις σεμνύνων ἂν λέγοι, φρόνησιν προσαναγκάζων εἶναι τὸ σωφρονεῖν, ἀλλʼ ὅπερ εὐθὺς παισὶν καὶ θηρίοις, τοῖς μὲν ἀκρατῶς ἔχειν πρὸς τὰς ἡδονάς, σύμφυτον ἐπανθεῖ, τοῖς δὲ ἐγκρατῶς· ὃ καὶ μονούμενον ἔφαμεν τῶν πολλῶν ἀγαθῶν λεγομένων οὐκ ἄξιον εἶναι λόγου.
ATH. The common kind, Cleinias, and not that which someone might speak of with solemnity, forcing temperance to be wisdom, but that which immediately blooms naturally in children and beasts—in some to be uncontrolled toward pleasures, but in others to be self-controlled; which, even when isolated from the many so-called goods, we said was not worthy of account.
ἔχετε γὰρ ὃ λέγω που.
For you surely understand what I mean.
ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
CL. Quite so.
ΑΘ. ταύτην τοίνυν ἡμῖν ὁ τύραννος τὴν φύσιν ἐχέτω πρὸς ἐκείναις ταῖς φύσεσιν, εἰ μέλλει πόλις ὡς δυνατόν ἐστι τάχιστα καὶ ἄριστα σχήσειν πολιτείαν ἣν λαβοῦσα εὐδαιμονέστατα διάξει.
ATH. Let our tyrant, then, possess this nature in addition to those other natures, if the city is to acquire as quickly and as best as possible the constitution which, having received, it will live most happily.
θάττων γὰρ ταύτης καὶ ἀμείνων πολιτείας διάθεσις οὔτʼ ἔστιν οὔτʼ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο.
For a quicker and better arrangement of a constitution neither exists nor could ever come to be.
ΚΛ. πῶς δὴ καὶ τίνι λόγῳ τοῦτο, ὦ ξένε, λέγων ἄν τις ὀρθῶς λέγειν αὑτὸν πείθοι;
CL. How indeed and by what argument, stranger, would one who says this persuade himself that he speaks correctly?
ΑΘ. ῥᾴδιόν που τοῦτό γε νοεῖν ἐστʼ, ὦ Κλεινία, κατὰ φύσιν ὡς ἔστι τοῦθʼ οὕτω.
ATH. It is surely easy to perceive this, Cleinias, that according to nature this is so.
ΚΛ. πῶς λέγεις;
CL. How do you mean?
εἰ τύραννος γένοιτο, φῄς, νέος, σώφρων, εὐμαθής, μνήμων, ἀνδρεῖος, μεγαλοπρεπής;
If a tyrant should come to be, you say, young, temperate, quick to learn, mindful, courageous, and magnificent?
ΑΘ. εὐτυχής, πρόσθες, μὴ κατʼ ἄλλο, ἀλλὰ τὸ γενέσθαι τε ἐπʼ αὐτοῦ νομοθέτην ἄξιον ἐπαίνου, καί τινα τύχην εἰς ταὐτὸν ἀγαγεῖν αὐτῷ· γενομένου γὰρ τούτου, πάντα σχεδὸν ἀπείργασται τῷ θεῷ, ἅπερ ὅταν βουληθῇ διαφερόντως εὖ πρᾶξαί τινα πόλιν.
ATH. "Fortunate," add this, not in other respects, but in that a legislator worthy of praise should be born in his time, and some chance should bring him to the same place with him; for if this happens, almost everything has been accomplished by God, which He does whenever He wishes to make some city exceptionally prosperous.
δεύτερον δέ, ἐάν ποτέ τινες δύο ἄρχοντες γίγνωνται τοιοῦτοι, τρίτον δʼ αὖ καὶ κατὰ λόγον ὡσαύτως χαλεπώτερον ὅσῳ πλείους, ὅσῳ δʼ ἐναντίον, ἐναντίως.
And second, if ever some two such rulers should come to be; and third, again, and in like proportion, it is more difficult the more there are, and the opposite in the opposite case.
ΚΛ. ἐκ τυραννίδος ἀρίστην φῂς γενέσθαι πόλιν ἄν, ὡς φαίνῃ, μετὰ νομοθέτου γε ἄκρου καὶ τυράννου κοσμίου, καὶ ῥᾷστά τε καὶ τάχιστʼ ἂν μεταβαλεῖν εἰς τοῦτο ἐκ τοῦ τοιούτου, δεύτερον δὲ ἐξ ὀλιγαρχίας—ἢ πῶς λέγεις; —καὶ τὸ τρίτον ἐκ δημοκρατίας.
CL. From a tyranny, you say, the best city would arise, as it appears, with an excellent legislator and an orderly tyrant, and most easily and quickly would it change into this from such a state; and second from an oligarchy—or how do you say?—and third from a democracy.
ΑΘ. οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλʼ ἐκ τυραννίδος μὲν πρῶτον, δεύτερον δὲ ἐκ βασιλικῆς πολιτείας, τρίτον δὲ ἔκ τινος δημοκρατίας.
ATH. By no means; but first from a tyranny, second from a royal constitution, and third from some sort of democracy.
τὸ δὲ τέταρτον, ὀλιγαρχία, τὴν τοῦ τοιούτου γένεσιν χαλεπώτατα δύναιτʼ ἂν προσδέξασθαι· πλεῖστοι γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ δυνάσται γίγνονται.
But the fourth, oligarchy, would receive the generation of such a state with the greatest difficulty; for the greatest number of dynasts arise in it.
§4.711ΑΘ. λέγομεν δὴ ταῦτα γίγνεσθαι τότε, ὅταν ἀληθὴς μὲν νομοθέτης γένηται φύσει, κοινὴ δὲ αὐτῷ τις συμβῇ ῥώμη πρὸς τοὺς ἐν τῇ πόλει μέγιστον δυναμένους· οὗ δʼ ἂν τοῦτο ἀριθμῷ μὲν βραχύτατον, ἰσχυρότατον δέ, καθάπερ ἐν τυραννίδι, γένηται, ταύτῃ καὶ τότε τάχος καὶ ῥᾳστώνη τῆς μεταβολῆς γίγνεσθαι φιλεῖ.
ATH. We say, then, that these things happen at that time when a true legislator is born by nature, and some common strength happens to him with those who have the greatest power in the city; and wherever this is fewest in number but strongest, as in a tyranny, there and then the speed and ease of the change is accustomed to happen.
ΚΛ. πῶς;
CL. How?
οὐ γὰρ μανθάνομεν.
For we do not understand.
ΑΘ. καὶ μὴν εἴρηταί γʼ ἡμῖν οὐχ ἅπαξ ἀλλʼ οἶμαι πολλάκις· ὑμεῖς δὲ τάχα οὐδὲ τεθέασθε τυραννουμένην πόλιν.
ATH. And yet it has been said by us not once, but, I think, many times; but you perhaps have not even seen a city ruled by a tyrant.
ΚΛ. οὐδέ γε ἐπιθυμητὴς ἔγωγʼ εἰμὶ τοῦ θεάματος.
CL. Nor indeed am I desirous of the sight.
ΑΘ. καὶ μὴν τοῦτό γʼ ἂν ἴδοις ἐν αὐτῇ τὸ νυνδὴ λεγόμενον.
ATH. And yet you would see in it this which was just now mentioned.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον;
CL. What sort of thing?
ΑΘ. οὐδὲν δεῖ πόνων οὐδέ τινος παμπόλλου χρόνου τῷ τυράννῳ μεταβαλεῖν βουληθέντι πόλεως ἤθη, πορεύεσθαι δὲ αὐτὸν δεῖ πρῶτον ταύτῃ, ὅπῃπερ ἂν ἐθελήσῃ, ἐάντε πρὸς ἀρετῆς ἐπιτηδεύματα, προτρέπεσθαι τοὺς πολίτας, ἐάντε ἐπὶ τοὐναντίον, αὐτὸν πρῶτον πάντα ὑπογράφοντα τῷ πράττειν, τὰ μὲν ἐπαινοῦντα καὶ τιμῶντα, τὰ δʼ αὖ πρὸς ψόγον ἄγοντα, καὶ τὸν μὴ πειθόμενον ἀτιμάζοντα καθʼ ἑκάστας τῶν πράξεων.
ATH. There is no need of labors or of any very long time for a tyrant who wishes to change the habits of a city, but he himself must first proceed in this direction, whichever way he may wish, whether toward practices of virtue, to exhort the citizens, or toward the opposite, he himself first outlining everything by doing it, praising and honoring some things, but again leading others to censure, and dishonoring the one who is disobedient in each of the actions.
ΚΛ. καὶ πῶς οἰόμεθα ταχὺ συνακολουθήσειν τοὺς ἄλλους πολίτας τῷ τὴν τοιαύτην πειθὼ καὶ ἅμα βίαν εἰληφότι;
CL. And how do we think that the other citizens will quickly follow him who has received such persuasion and at the same time force?
ΑΘ. μηδεὶς ἡμᾶς πειθέτω, ὦ φίλοι, ἄλλῃ θᾶττον καὶ ῥᾷον μεταβάλλειν ἄν ποτε πόλιν τοὺς νόμους ἢ τῇ τῶν δυναστευόντων ἡγεμονίᾳ, μηδὲ νῦν γε ἄλλῃ γίγνεσθαι μηδʼ αὖθίς ποτε γενήσεσθαι. καὶ γὰρ οὖν ἡμῖν οὐ τοῦτʼ ἐστὶν ἀδύνατον οὐδὲ χαλεπῶς ἂν γενόμενον·
ATH. Let no one persuade us, friends, that a city would ever change its laws more quickly and easily by any other way than by the leadership of those in power, nor indeed that it happens otherwise now, nor will ever happen so again.
ἀλλὰ τόδʼ ἐστὶ τὸ χαλεπὸν γενέσθαι, καὶ ὀλίγον δὴ τὸ γεγονὸς ἐν τῷ πολλῷ χρόνῳ, ὅταν δὲ συμβῇ, μυρία καὶ πάντʼ ἐν πόλει ἀγαθὰ ἀπεργάζεται, ἐν ᾗ ποτʼ ἂν ἐγγένηται.
For indeed this is not impossible for us, nor would it happen with difficulty; but this is the difficult thing to happen, and rare indeed has been its occurrence in the long course of time, but whenever it does happen, it works countless and all kinds of goods in the city, in whichever it may arise.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
CL. What sort of thing indeed do you mean?
ΑΘ. ὅταν ἔρως θεῖος τῶν σωφρόνων τε καὶ δικαίων ἐπιτηδευμάτων ἐγγένηται μεγάλαις τισὶν δυναστείαις, ἢ κατὰ μοναρχίαν δυναστευούσαις ἢ κατὰ πλούτων ὑπεροχὰς διαφερούσαις ἢ γενῶν, ἢ τὴν Νέστορος ἐάν ποτέ τις ἐπανενέγκῃ φύσιν, ὃν τῇ τοῦ λέγειν ῥώμῃ φασὶ πάντων διενεγκόντα ἀνθρώπων πλέον ἔτι τῷ σωφρονεῖν διαφέρειν.
ATH. Whenever a divine love of temperate and just practices arises in some great powers, whether ruling according to monarchy or distinguished by excesses of wealth or of births, or if ever someone should bring back the nature of Nestor, whom they say excelled all men in the power of speech, but excelled still more in being temperate.
τοῦτʼ οὖν ἐπὶ μὲν Τροίας, ὥς φασι, γέγονεν, ἐφʼ ἡμῶν δὲ οὐδαμῶς, εἰ δʼ οὖν γέγονεν ἢ καὶ γενήσεται τοιοῦτος ἢ νῦν ἡμῶν ἔστιν τις, μακαρίως μὲν αὐτὸς ζῇ, μακάριοι δὲ οἱ συνήκοοι τῶν ἐκ τοῦ σωφρονοῦντος στόματος ἰόντων λόγων.
This, then, happened in the time of Troy, as they say, but in our time by no means; but if indeed there has been or will be such a person, or if there is one of us now, he himself lives happily, and happy are those who hear together the words going out from his temperate mouth.