§4.708ΑΘ. καίτοι τινὰς ὑμῖν ἔκ τε Ἄργους ὁρῶ καὶ Αἰγίνης καὶ ἄλλοθεν τῶν Ἑλλήνων εἰς τὴν χώραν κατῳκισμένους.
ATH. And yet I see that some of your people from Argos and Aegina and elsewhere among the Greeks have settled in this country.
τὸ δὲ δὴ παρὸν ἡμῖν λέγε πόθεν ἔσεσθαι φῂς στρατόπεδον τῶν πολιτῶν τὰ νῦν;
But tell us concerning our present topic: from where do you say the force of citizens will come at the present time?
ΚΛ. ἔκ τε Κρήτης συμπάσης ἔοικεν γενήσεσθαι, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων δὲ Ἑλλήνων μάλιστά μοι φαίνονται τοὺς ἀπὸ Πελοποννήσου προσδέξασθαι συνοίκους.
CL. It seems it will come from the whole of Crete, and of the other Greeks, they seem to me most likely to welcome co-dwellers from the Peloponnese.
καὶ γὰρ ὃ νῦν δὴ λέγεις, ἀληθὲς φράζεις, ὡς ἐξ Ἄργους εἰσίν, καὶ τό γε μάλιστʼ εὐδοκιμοῦν τὰ νῦν ἐνθάδε γένος, τὸ Γορτυνικόν· ἐκ Γόρτυνος γὰρ τυγχάνει ἀπῳκηκὸς ταύτης τῆς Πελοποννησιακῆς.
For indeed what you were just saying, you speak the truth, that they are from Argos, and the race most in high repute at present here is the Gortynian; for it happens to have migrated from Gortyn of this Peloponnesian region.
ΑΘ. οὐ τοίνυν εὔκολος ὁμοίως γίγνοιτʼ ἂν ὁ κατοικισμὸς ταῖς πόλεσιν, ὅταν μὴ τὸν τῶν ἐσμῶν γίγνηται τρόπον, ἓν γένος ἀπὸ μιᾶς ἰὸν χώρας οἰκίζηται, φίλον παρὰ φίλων, στενοχωρίᾳ τινὶ πολιορκηθὲν γῆς ἤ τισιν ἄλλοις τοιούτοις παθήμασιν ἀναγκασθέν.
ATH. Therefore, settlement would not be equally easy for states unless it takes place in the manner of swarms, where one race going from one country is settled, friend from friends, either besieged by some narrowness of land or forced by some other such experiences.
ἔστιν δʼ ὅτε καὶ στάσεσιν βιαζόμενον ἀναγκάζοιτʼ ἂν ἑτέρωσε ἀποξενοῦσθαι πόλεώς τι μόριον· ἤδη δέ ποτε καὶ συνάπασα πόλις τινῶν ἔφυγεν, ἄρδην κρείττονι κρατηθεῖσα πολέμῳ.
And sometimes, forced by factions, some portion of a city might be compelled to emigrate elsewhere; and indeed once even an entire city fled from certain enemies, being utterly conquered in a superior war.
ταῦτʼ οὖν πάντʼ ἐστὶ τῇ μὲν ῥᾴω κατοικίζεσθαί τε καὶ νομοθετεῖσθαι, τῇ δὲ χαλεπώτερα.
All these things, therefore, are in one way easier to settle and legislate for, but in another way more difficult.
τὸ μὲν γὰρ ἕν τι εἶναι γένος ὁμόφωνον καὶ ὁμόνομον ἔχει τινὰ φιλίαν, κοινωνὸν ἱερῶν ὂν καὶ τῶν τοιούτων πάντων, νόμους δʼ ἑτέρους καὶ πολιτείας ἄλλας τῶν οἴκοθεν οὐκ εὐπετῶς ἀνέχεται, τὸ δʼ ἐνίοτε πονηρίᾳ νόμων ἐστασιακὸς καὶ διὰ συνήθειαν ζητοῦν ἔτι χρῆσθαι τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἤθεσιν διʼ ἃ καὶ πρότερον ἐφθάρη, χαλεπὸν τῷ κατοικίζοντι καὶ νομοθετοῦντι καὶ δυσπειθὲς γίγνεται·
For that there is one race, speaking the same tongue and sharing the same laws, possesses a certain friendship, being a partner in sacred rites and all such things, but it does not easily tolerate other laws and different constitutions from those of home. On the other hand, that which is sometimes factious through the badness of laws and seeks through habit still to use the same customs because of which it was previously ruined, becomes difficult for the settler and legislator and hard to persuade.
τὸ δʼ αὖ παντοδαπὸν ἐς ταὐτὸν συνερρυηκὸς γένος ὑπακοῦσαι μέν τινων νόμων καινῶν τάχα ἂν ἐθελήσειε μᾶλλον, τὸ δὲ συμπνεῦσαι, καὶ καθάπερ ἵππων ζεῦγος καθʼ ἕνα εἰς ταὐτόν, τὸ λεγόμενον, συμφυσῆσαι, χρόνου πολλοῦ καὶ παγχάλεπον.
But again, a diverse race that has flowed together into the same place would perhaps be more willing to obey some new laws, but to breathe together, and, like a team of horses, to pull together in the same direction, as the saying goes, is a matter of much time and very difficult.
ἀλλʼ ὄντως ἐστὶν νομοθεσία καὶ πόλεων οἰκισμοὶ πάντων τελεώτατον πρὸς ἀρετὴν ἀνδρῶν.
But indeed, legislation and settlements of states are the most perfect of all things for the virtue of men.
ΚΛ. εἰκός·
CL.
ὅπῃ δʼ αὖ βλέπων τοῦτʼ εἴρηκας, φράζʼ ἔτι σαφέστερον.
Likely so; but in what direction you are looking when you said this, explain still more clearly.
ΑΘ. ὠγαθέ, ἔοικα περὶ νομοθετῶν ἐπανιὼν καὶ σκοπῶν ἅμα ἐρεῖν τι καὶ φαῦλον· ἀλλʼ ἐὰν πρὸς καιρόν τινα λέγωμεν, πρᾶγμʼ οὐδὲν γίγνοιτʼ ἂν ἔτι.
ATH. My good friend, I seem, in returning to and considering legislators, to be about to say something rather cheap; but if we speak to the purpose, no harm would come of it yet.
καίτοι τί ποτε δυσχεραίνω;
And yet why am I annoyed?
σχεδὸν γάρ τοι πάντα οὕτως ἔοικʼ ἔχειν τὰ ἀνθρώπινα.
For nearly all human affairs seem to be in this condition.
ΚΛ. τοῦ δὴ πέρι λέγεις;
CL. About what are you speaking?
§4.709ΑΘ. ἔμελλον λέγειν ὡς οὐδείς ποτε ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲν νομοθετεῖ, τύχαι δὲ καὶ συμφοραὶ παντοῖαι πίπτουσαι παντοίως νομοθετοῦσι τὰ πάντα ἡμῖν.
ATH. I was going to say that no human being ever legislates anything, but all kinds of chances and misfortunes falling in all kinds of ways legislate everything for us.
ἢ γὰρ πόλεμός τις βιασάμενος ἀνέτρεψε πολιτείας καὶ μετέβαλε νόμους, ἢ πενίας χαλεπῆς ἀπορία· πολλὰ δὲ καὶ νόσοι ἀναγκάζουσι καινοτομεῖν, λοιμῶν τε ἐμπιπτόντων, καὶ χρόνον ἐπὶ πολὺν ἐνιαυτῶν πολλῶν πολλάκις ἀκαιρίαι.
For either some war by force has overturned constitutions and changed laws, or the distress of harsh poverty; and many things also diseases compel to innovate, when plagues fall upon them, and often the unseasonable weather for a long time of many years.
ταῦτα δὴ πάντα προϊδών τις ᾄξειεν ἂν εἰπεῖν ὅπερ ἐγὼ νυνδή, τὸ θνητὸν μὲν μηδένα νομοθετεῖν μηδέν, τύχας δʼ εἶναι σχεδὸν ἅπαντα τὰ ἀνθρώπινα πράγματα·
Looking forward to all these things, one might be driven to say what I just now said, that no mortal legislates anything, but that chances are almost all human affairs.
τὸ δʼ ἔστιν περί τε ναυτιλίαν καὶ κυβερνητικὴν καὶ ἰατρικὴν καὶ στρατηγικὴν πάντα ταῦτʼ εἰπόντα δοκεῖν εὖ λέγειν, ἀλλὰ γὰρ ὁμοίως αὖ καὶ τόδε ἔστιν λέγοντα εὖ λέγειν ἐν τοῖς αὐτοῖς τούτοις.
But in speaking all these things about seamanship, piloting, medicine, and generalship, one seems to speak well; and yet, in like manner, one can also speak well by saying this in these very same matters.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον;
CL. What sort of thing?
ΑΘ. ὡς θεὸς μὲν πάντα, καὶ μετὰ θεοῦ τύχη καὶ καιρός, τἀνθρώπινα διακυβερνῶσι σύμπαντα.
ATH. That God indeed controls all things, and with God, chance and opportunity govern all human affairs.
ἡμερώτερον μὴν τρίτον συγχωρῆσαι τούτοις δεῖν ἕπεσθαι τέχνην· καιρῷ γὰρ χειμῶνος συλλαβέσθαι κυβερνητικὴν ἢ μή, μέγα πλεονέκτημα ἔγωγʼ ἂν θείην.
Yet it is gentler to concede that a third thing, namely art, must follow these; for in the opportunity of a storm, whether piloting assists or not, I should count as a great advantage.
ἢ πῶς;
Or how?
ΚΛ. οὕτως.
CL. Thus.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις ὡσαύτως κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν ἂν ἔχοι λόγον, καὶ δὴ καὶ νομοθεσίᾳ ταὐτὸν τοῦτο δοτέον·
ATH.
τῶν ἄλλων συμπιπτόντων, ὅσα δεῖ χώρᾳ συντυχεῖν, εἰ μέλλοι ποτὲ εὐδαιμόνως οἰκήσειν, τὸν νομοθέτην ἀληθείας ἐχόμενον τῇ τοιαύτῃ παραπεσεῖν ἑκάστοτε πόλει δεῖν.
Therefore, also for the others it would hold in the same way according to the same argument, and indeed this very same thing must be granted to legislation: when the other things happen, as many as must fall together for a land if it is ever to dwell happily, the legislator holding to the truth must on each occasion fall in with such a city.
ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
CL. You speak most truly.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ὅ γε πρὸς ἕκαστόν τι τῶν εἰρημένων ἔχων τὴν τέχνην κἂν εὔξασθαί που δύναιτο ὀρθῶς, τί παρὸν αὐτῷ διὰ τύχης, τῆς τέχνης ἂν μόνον ἐπιδέοι;
ATH. Therefore, he who has the art for each of the mentioned things would surely be able to pray correctly: what being present to him through chance, would he stand in need of art alone?
ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
CL. Quite so.
ΑΘ. οἵ τε ἄλλοι γε δὴ πάντες οἱ νυνδὴ ῥηθέντες, κελευόμενοι τὴν αὑτῶν εὐχὴν εἰπεῖν, εἴποιεν ἄν.
ATH. And indeed all the others just now mentioned, being ordered to state their own prayer, would state it.
ἦ γάρ;
Would they not?
ΚΛ. τί μήν;
CL. Of course.
ΑΘ. ταὐτὸν δὴ καὶ νομοθέτης οἶμαι δράσειεν.
ATH. The same thing, then, I think a legislator also would do.
ΚΛ. ἔγωγʼ οἶμαι.
CL. I think so.
ΑΘ.
φέρε δή, νομοθέτα,
πρὸς αὐτὸν φῶμεν,
τί σοι καὶ πῶς πόλιν ἔχουσαν δῶμεν, ὃ λαβὼν ἕξεις ὥστʼ ἐκ τῶν λοιπῶν αὐτὸς τὴν πόλιν ἱκανῶς διοικῆσαι;
ATH. "Come then, legislator," let us say to him, "what and in what condition shall we give a city to you, which you, having received, will hold so as to be able to manage the city sufficiently by yourself from the remaining things?" CL.
ΚΛ. τί μετὰ τοῦτʼ εἰπεῖν ὀρθῶς ἔστιν ἄρα;
What is the correct thing to say after this?
ΑΘ. τοῦ νομοθέτου φράζομεν τοῦτο, ἦ γάρ;
ATH. We are speaking of the legislator's words, are we not?
ΚΛ. ναί.
CL. Yes.