§3.690ΑΘ. εἶεν·
ATH. "Well then.
ἀξιώματα δὲ δὴ τοῦ τε ἄρχειν καὶ ἄρχεσθαι ποῖά ἐστι καὶ πόσα, ἔν τε πόλεσιν μεγάλαις καὶ σμικραῖς ἔν τε οἰκίαις ὡσαύτως;
What and how many are the claims to rule and to be ruled, in large and small cities as well as in households likewise?
ἆρʼ οὐχὶ ἓν μὲν τό τε πατρὸς καὶ μητρός;
Is not one indeed that of father and mother?
καὶ ὅλως γονέας ἐκγόνων ἄρχειν ἀξίωμα ὀρθὸν πανταχοῦ ἂν εἴη; ΚΛ. καὶ μάλα.
And generally, that parents rule offspring would be a correct claim everywhere, would it not?" CL.
ΑΘ. τούτῳ δέ γε ἑπόμενον γενναίους ἀγεννῶν ἄρχειν·
"Very much so." ATH. "And following this one, that the noble-born rule the ignoble-born.
καὶ τρίτον ἔτι τούτοις συνέπεται τὸ πρεσβυτέρους μὲν ἄρχειν δεῖν, νεωτέρους δὲ ἄρχεσθαι. ΚΛ. τί μήν;
And as a third, following these, that the older must rule, and the younger be ruled." CL.
ΑΘ. τέταρτον δʼ αὖ δούλους μὲν ἄρχεσθαι, δεσπότας δὲ ἄρχειν. ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
"Of course." ATH. "And fourth, in turn, that slaves be ruled, and masters rule." CL.
ΑΘ. πέμπτον γε οἶμαι τὸ κρείττονα μὲν ἄρχειν, τὸν ἥττω δὲ ἄρχεσθαι. ΚΛ. μάλα γε ἀναγκαῖον ἀρχὴν εἴρηκας.
"How could it not be so?" ATH. "And fifth, I think, that the stronger rule, and the weaker be ruled." CL.
ΑΘ. καὶ πλείστην γε ἐν σύμπασιν τοῖς ζῴοις οὖσαν καὶ κατὰ φύσιν, ὡς ὁ Θηβαῖος ἔφη ποτὲ Πίνδαρος.
"You have named a very necessary rule." ATH. "And indeed one that is most prevalent among all living beings and is according to nature, as Pindar of Thebes once said.
τὸ δὲ μέγιστον, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἀξίωμα ἕκτον ἂν γίγνοιτο, ἕπεσθαι μὲν τὸν ἀνεπιστήμονα κελεῦον, τὸν δὲ φρονοῦντα ἡγεῖσθαί τε καὶ ἄρχειν.
But the greatest claim, as it seems, would be the sixth, which bids the ignorant to follow, and the wise to lead and rule.
καίτοι τοῦτό γε, ὦ Πίνδαρε σοφώτατε, σχεδὸν οὐκ ἂν παρὰ φύσιν ἔγωγε φαίην γίγνεσθαι, κατὰ φύσιν δέ, τὴν τοῦ νόμου ἑκόντων ἀρχὴν ἀλλʼ οὐ βίαιον πεφυκυῖαν. ΚΛ. ὀρθότατα λέγεις.
And yet this, O most wise Pindar, I for my part would say is almost not contrary to nature, but according to nature—namely, the rule of law over willing subjects, which is not by force but natural." CL.
ΑΘ. θεοφιλῆ δέ γε καὶ εὐτυχῆ τινα λέγοντες ἑβδόμην ἀρχήν, εἰς κλῆρόν τινα προάγομεν, καὶ λαχόντα μὲν ἄρχειν, δυσκληροῦντα δὲ ἀπιόντα ἄρχεσθαι τὸ δικαιότατον εἶναί φαμεν. ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
"You speak most correctly." ATH. "And indeed, speaking of a seventh rule, which is favored by the gods and fortunate, we bring it to a sort of lot; and we say that it is most just for the one who wins the lot to rule, and for the unlucky one to go away and be ruled." CL.
ΑΘ.
ὁρᾷς δή,
φαῖμεν ἄν,
ὦ νομοθέτα,
πρός τινα παίζοντες τῶν ἐπὶ νόμων θέσιν ἰόντων ῥᾳδίως,
ὅσα ἐστὶ πρὸς ἄρχοντας ἀξιώματα, καὶ ὅτι πεφυκότα πρὸς ἄλληλα ἐναντίως;
"You speak most truly." ATH. "Do you see then, we might say, O legislator, playing with someone who easily goes toward the setting of laws, how many claims there are in relation to rulers, and that they are by nature contrary to one another?
νῦν γὰρ δὴ στάσεων πηγήν τινα ἀνηυρήκαμεν ἡμεῖς, ἣν δεῖ σε θεραπεύειν.
For now indeed we have discovered a certain source of factions, which you must cure.
πρῶτον δὲ μεθʼ ἡμῶν ἀνάσκεψαι πῶς τε καὶ τί παρὰ ταῦτα ἁμαρτόντες οἱ περί τε Ἄργος καὶ Μεσσήνην βασιλῆς αὑτοὺς ἅμα καὶ τὴν τῶν Ἑλλήνων δύναμιν, οὖσαν θαυμαστὴν ἐν τῷ τότε χρόνῳ, διέφθειραν.
But first examine with us how and in what way, by erring against these things, the kings around Argos and Messene destroyed both themselves and the power of the Greeks, which was wonderful at that time.
ἆρʼ οὐκ ἀγνοήσαντες τὸν Ἡσίοδον ὀρθότατα λέγοντα ὡς τὸ ἥμισυ τοῦ παντὸς πολλάκις ἐστὶ πλέον;
Did they not fail to understand Hesiod when he spoke most correctly, that 'half is often more than the whole'?
ὁπόταν ᾖ τὸ μὲν ὅλον λαμβάνειν ζημιῶδες, τὸ δʼ ἥμισυ μέτριον, τότε τὸ μέτριον τοῦ ἀμέτρου πλέον ἡγήσατο, ἄμεινον ὂν χείρονος. ΚΛ. ὀρθότατά γε.
Whenever taking the whole is harmful, while half is moderate, then he deemed the moderate to be more than the immoderate, being better than what is worse." CL.
ΑΘ. πότερον οὖν οἰόμεθα περὶ βασιλέας τοῦτʼ ἐγγιγνόμενον ἑκάστοτε διαφθείρειν πρότερον, ἢ ἐν τοῖσιν δήμοις; §3.691ΚΛ. τὸ μὲν εἰκὸς καὶ τὸ πολύ, βασιλέων τοῦτʼ εἶναι νόσημα ὑπερηφάνως ζώντων διὰ τρυφάς.
"Most correctly indeed." ATH. "Do we think, then, that this, arising in each case, corrupts first in the case of kings, or among the peoples?" CL.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν δῆλον ὡς πρῶτον τοῦτο οἱ τότε βασιλῆς ἔσχον, τὸ πλεονεκτεῖν τῶν τεθέντων νόμων, καὶ ὃ λόγῳ τε καὶ ὅρκῳ ἐπῄνεσαν, οὐ συνεφώνησαν αὑτοῖς, ἀλλὰ ἡ διαφωνία, ὡς ἡμεῖς φαμεν, οὖσα ἀμαθία μεγίστη, δοκοῦσα δὲ σοφία, πάντʼ ἐκεῖνα διὰ πλημμέλειαν καὶ ἀμουσίαν τὴν πικρὰν διέφθειρεν; ΚΛ. ἔοικε γοῦν.
"The likely thing, and for the most part, is that this is a disease of kings who live haughtily through luxury." ATH. "Is it not clear, then, that those kings at that time had this first—namely, getting more than the established laws, and that what they praised in word and oath, they did not agree to with themselves, but the discord, being as we say the greatest ignorance, though seeming to be wisdom, destroyed all those things through discordance and bitter lack of culture?" CL.
ΑΘ. εἶεν· τί δὴ τὸν νομοθέτην ἔδει τότε τιθέντα εὐλαβηθῆναι τούτου περὶ τοῦ πάθους τῆς γενέσεως;
"It seems so, at any rate." ATH. "Well then.
ἆρʼ ὦ πρὸς θεῶν νῦν μὲν οὐδὲν σοφὸν γνῶναι τοῦτο οὐδʼ εἰπεῖν χαλεπόν, εἰ δὲ προϊδεῖν ἦν τότε, σοφώτερος ἂν ἦν ἡμῶν ὁ προϊδών; ΜΕ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
What, indeed, was it necessary for the legislator at that time, when establishing laws, to guard against concerning the generation of this affection?
ΑΘ. εἰς τὸ γεγονὸς παρʼ ὑμῖν, ὦ Μέγιλλε, ἔστιν νῦν γε κατιδόντα γνῶναι, καὶ γνόντα εἰπεῖν ῥᾴδιον, ὃ τότε ἔδει γίγνεσθαι.
By the gods, is it not indeed nothing wise to know this now, nor difficult to say, but if it had been possible to foresee it then, would not the one who foresaw it have been wiser than we?" ME. "What sort of thing indeed do you mean?" ATH.
ΜΕ. σαφέστερον ἔτι λέγε.
"By looking at what happened among you, O Megillus, it is indeed easy now to observe and know, and having known, to say what ought to have happened then." ME.
ΑΘ. τὸ τοίνυν σαφέστατον ἂν εἴη τὸ τοιόνδε.
"Speak still more clearly." ATH.
ΜΕ. τὸ ποῖον;
"The clearest statement, then, would be of this sort." ME.
ΑΘ. ἐάν τις μείζονα διδῷ τοῖς ἐλάττοσι παρεὶς τὸ μέτριον, πλοίοις τε ἱστία καὶ σώμασιν τροφὴν καὶ ψυχαῖς ἀρχάς, ἀνατρέπεταί που πάντα, καὶ ἐξυβρίζοντα τὰ μὲν εἰς νόσους θεῖ, τὰ δʼ εἰς ἔκγονον ὕβρεως ἀδικίαν.
"What kind of thing?" ATH. "If someone gives greater things to lesser ones, bypassing the moderate—sails to ships, food to bodies, and offices of rule to souls—everything, I suppose, is overturned, and running into insolence, some run into diseases, and others into injustice, the offspring of insolence.
τί οὖν δή ποτε λέγομεν;
What, then, indeed, do we say?
ἆρά γε τὸ τοιόνδε, ὡς οὐκ ἔστʼ, ὦ φίλοι ἄνδρες, θνητῆς ψυχῆς φύσις ἥτις ποτὲ δυνήσεται τὴν μεγίστην ἐν ἀνθρώποις ἀρχὴν φέρειν νέα καὶ ἀνυπεύθυνος, ὥστε μὴ τῆς μεγίστης νόσου ἀνοίας πληρωθεῖσα αὑτῆς τὴν διάνοιαν, μῖσος ἔχειν πρὸς τῶν ἐγγύτατα φίλων, ὃ γενόμενον ταχὺ διέφθειρεν αὐτὴν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν δύναμιν ἠφάνισεν αὐτῆς;
Is it indeed something of this sort: that there is not, O my friends, any mortal soul's nature which will ever be able to bear the greatest rule among men when young and unaccountable, without being filled in its mind with the greatest disease, folly, and having hatred toward its closest friends, which when it happens quickly destroys the soul itself and vanishes all its power?
τοῦτʼ οὖν εὐλαβηθῆναι γνόντας τὸ μέτριον μεγάλων νομοθετῶν. ὡς οὖν δὴ τότε γενόμενον, νῦν ἔστιν μετριώτατα τοπάσαι· τὸ δʼ ἔοικεν εἶναι—
ΜΕ. τὸ ποῖον;
To guard against this, then, by knowing the moderate, belongs to great legislators. As for what happened then, indeed, it is now possible to guess most moderately; and it seems to be—" ME. "What kind of thing?"