§3.687ΜΕ. οὐκοῦν ὀρθὸν καὶ τοῦτο;
ME. Therefore, is this also right?
ἢ πῶς λέγεις;
Or how do you mean?
ΑΘ. σκόπει δὴ ποῖ βλέπων ὁ τὸν ἔπαινον τοῦτον περὶ ἑκάστου τιθέμενος ὀρθῶς λέγει· πρῶτον δὲ περὶ αὐτοῦ τοῦ νῦν λεγομένου, πῶς, εἰ κατὰ τρόπον ἠπιστήθησαν τάξαι τὸ στρατόπεδον οἱ τότε διακοσμοῦντες, τοῦ καιροῦ πως ἂν ἔτυχον;
ATH. Consider indeed whither looking he who bestows this praise upon each says it rightly; and first, concerning this very thing now being spoken of, how, if those then organizing it had known how to arrange the army in a proper manner, would they have somehow hit upon the opportunity?
ἆρʼ οὐκ εἰ συνέστησάν τε ἀσφαλῶς αὐτὸ διέσῳζόν τε εἰς τὸν ἀεὶ χρόνον, ὥστε αὐτούς τε ἐλευθέρους εἶναι καὶ ἄλλων ἄρχοντας ὧν βουληθεῖεν, καὶ ὅλως ἐν ἀνθρώποις πᾶσι καὶ Ἕλλησι καὶ βαρβάροις πράττειν ὅτι ἐπιθυμοῖεν αὐτοί τε καὶ οἱ ἔκγονοι;
Is it not because, if they had established it securely and preserved it for all time, they themselves would be free and rulers of others whomsoever they wished, and in general, among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, they themselves and their descendants would do whatever they desired?
μῶν οὐ τούτων χάριν ἐπαινοῖεν ἄν;
Surely they would praise it for the sake of these things?
ΜΕ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ME. Yes, by all means.
ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν καὶ ὃς ἂν ἰδὼν πλοῦτον μέγαν ἢ τιμὰς διαφερούσας γένους, ἢ καὶ ὁτιοῦν τῶν τοιούτων, εἴπῃ ταὐτὰ ταῦτα, πρὸς τοῦτο βλέπων εἶπεν, ὡς διὰ τοῦτο αὐτῷ γενησόμενα ὧν ἂν ἐπιθυμῇ πάντα ἢ τὰ πλεῖστα καὶ ὅσα ἀξιώτατα λόγου;
ATH. Therefore, does also whoever, seeing great wealth or exceptional honors of lineage, or any other such thing, says these same things, say them looking to this—on the ground that through this there will come to him all or most of the things he desires, and those most worthy of mention?
ΜΕ. ἔοικε γοῦν.
ME. So it seems, at least.
ΑΘ. φέρε δή, πάντων ἀνθρώπων ἐστὶ κοινὸν ἐπιθύμημα ἕν τι τὸ νῦν ὑπὸ τοῦ λόγου δηλούμενον, ὡς αὐτός φησιν ὁ λόγος;
ATH. Come then, is there some one common desire of all men, namely that which is now revealed by our discourse, as the discourse itself says?
ΜΕ. τὸ ποῖον;
ME. What kind of thing?
ΑΘ. τὸ κατὰ τὴν τῆς αὑτοῦ ψυχῆς ἐπίταξιν τὰ γιγνόμενα γίγνεσθαι, μάλιστα μὲν ἅπαντα, εἰ δὲ μή, τά γε ἀνθρώπινα.
ATH. Namely, that what happens should happen according to the command of one’s own soul—ideally all things, but if not, at least human affairs.
ΜΕ. τί μήν;
ME. Of course.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ἐπείπερ βουλόμεθα πάντες τὸ τοιοῦτον ἀεί, παῖδές τε ὄντες καὶ ἄνδρες πρεσβῦται, τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ καὶ εὐχοίμεθʼ ἂν ἀναγκαίως διὰ τέλους;
ATH. Since, then, we all wish for such a thing always, whether we are children, men, or old, would we not also of necessity pray for this very thing continually to the end?
ΜΕ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ME. How indeed not?
ΑΘ. καὶ μὴν τοῖς γε φίλοις που συνευχοίμεθʼ ἂν ταῦτα ἅπερ ἐκεῖνοι ἑαυτοῖσιν.
ATH. And indeed, we would surely join in praying for our friends for those very things which they pray for themselves.
ΜΕ. τί μήν;
ME. Of course.
ΑΘ. φίλος μὲν ὑὸς πατρί, παῖς ὢν ἀνδρί.
ATH. A son is dear to his father, a child to a man.
ΜΕ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;
ME. How indeed not?
ΑΘ. καὶ μὴν ὧν γʼ ὁ παῖς εὔχεται ἑαυτῷ γίγνεσθαι, πολλὰ ὁ πατὴρ ἀπεύξαιτʼ ἂν τοῖς θεοῖς μηδαμῶς κατὰ τὰς τοῦ ὑέος εὐχὰς γίγνεσθαι.
ATH. And yet, of the things which the child prays to happen to himself, the father would pray to the gods to avert many, so that they should by no means happen according to the son’s prayers.
ΜΕ. ὅταν ἀνόητος ὢν καὶ ἔτι νέος εὔχηται, λέγεις;
ME. Do you mean when he prays being foolish and still young?
ΑΘ. καὶ ὅταν γε ὁ πατὴρ ὢν γέρων ἢ καὶ σφόδρα νεανίας, μηδὲν τῶν καλῶν καὶ τῶν δικαίων γιγνώσκων, εὔχηται μάλα προθύμως ἐν παθήμασιν ἀδελφοῖς ὢν τοῖς γενομένοις Θησεῖ πρὸς τὸν δυστυχῶς τελευτήσαντα Ἱππόλυτον, ὁ δὲ παῖς γιγνώσκῃ, τότε, δοκεῖς, παῖς πατρὶ συνεύξεται;
ATH. And also when the father, being old or indeed very youthful, knowing nothing of the beautiful and the just, prays very eagerly while being in passions akin to those that happened to Theseus toward the unhappily perished Hippolytus, whereas the child knows better—do you think, then, the child will join in praying with the father?
ΜΕ. μανθάνω ὃ λέγεις.
ME. I understand what you mean.
λέγειν γάρ μοι δοκεῖς ὡς οὐ τοῦτο εὐκτέον οὐδὲ ἐπεικτέον, ἕπεσθαι πάντα τῇ ἑαυτοῦ βουλήσει, τὴν βούλησιν δὲ πολὺ μᾶλλον τῇ ἑαυτοῦ φρονήσει· τοῦτο δὲ καὶ πόλιν καὶ ἕνα ἡμῶν ἕκαστον καὶ εὔχεσθαι δεῖν καὶ σπεύδειν, ὅπως νοῦν ἕξει.
For you seem to me to say that this is not what should be prayed for or strived for, namely that everything follow one's own wish, but much rather that one's wish follow one's own wisdom; and that both a city and each one of us must pray for and strive for this, that one may possess intellect.