§2.667ΑΘ. λαβὼν δʼ ὑμῶν οὐδεὶς τὸν αὑτοῦ, παρὰ τῶν συννόμων σπάσας σφόδρα ἀγριαίνοντα καὶ ἀγανακτοῦντα, ἱπποκόμον τε ἐπέστησεν ἰδίᾳ καὶ παιδεύει ψήχων τε καὶ ἡμερῶν, καὶ πάντα προσήκοντα ἀποδιδοὺς τῇ παιδοτροφίᾳ ὅθεν οὐ μόνον ἀγαθὸς ἂν στρατιώτης εἴη, πόλιν δὲ καὶ ἄστη δυνάμενος διοικεῖν, ὃν δὴ κατʼ ἀρχὰς εἴπομεν τῶν Τυρταίου πολεμικῶν εἶναι πολεμικώτερον, τέταρτον ἀρετῆς ἀλλʼ οὐ πρῶτον τὴν ἀνδρείαν κτῆμα τιμῶντα ἀεὶ καὶ πανταχοῦ, ἰδιώταις τε καὶ συμπάσῃ πόλει.
ATH. But no one among you, having taken his own [colt] and pulled it away from its pasture-companions when it is raging and protesting exceedingly, has either put a groom in charge of it individually or trains it by brushing and taming it, nor does he render all things fitting for its rearing, whence it might become not only a good soldier, but also capable of managing a state and cities—such a person, indeed, as we said at the beginning would be more warlike than the warlike men of Tyrtaeus, always and everywhere honoring courage as the fourth, and not the first, possession of virtue, both for individuals and for the entire state.
ΚΛ. οὐκ οἶδα ἡμῶν, ὦ ξένε, ὅπῃ πάλιν αὖ τοὺς νομοθέτας φαυλίζεις.
CL. I do not know, my guest, in what way you are again belittling our legislators.
ΑΘ. οὐκ, ὠγαθέ, προσέχων τούτῳ τὸν νοῦν δρῶ τοῦτο, εἴπερ· ἀλλʼ ὁ λόγος ὅπῃ φέρει, ταύτῃ πορευώμεθα, εἰ βούλεσθε.
ATH. Not, my good friend, by directing my mind to this do I do this, if indeed [I do so]; but let us proceed where the argument leads, if you wish.
εἰ γὰρ ἔχομεν μοῦσαν τῆς τῶν χορῶν καλλίω καὶ τῆς ἐν τοῖς κοινοῖς θεάτροις, πειρώμεθα ἀποδοῦναι τούτοις οὕς φαμεν ἐκείνην μὲν αἰσχύνεσθαι, ζητεῖν δέ, ἥτις καλλίστη, ταύτης κοινωνεῖν.
For if we possess a song more beautiful than that of the choruses and that of the public theaters, let us try to grant it to those who, as we say, are ashamed of the former, but seek to share in the latter, which is the most beautiful.
ΚΛ. πάνυ γε.
CL. By all means.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν πρῶτον μὲν δεῖ τόδε γε ὑπάρχειν ἅπασιν ὅσοις συμπαρέπεταί τις χάρις, ἢ τοῦτο αὐτὸ μόνον αὐτοῦ τὸ σπουδαιότατον εἶναι, ἤ τινα ὀρθότητα, ἢ τὸ τρίτον ὠφελίαν;
ATH. Therefore, must not this at least belong to all things accompanied by some charm: either that this very charm is their most serious element, or some correctness, or thirdly, utility?
οἷον δὴ λέγω ἐδωδῇ μὲν καὶ πόσει καὶ συμπάσῃ τροφῇ παρέπεσθαι μὲν τὴν χάριν, ἣν ἡδονὴν ἂν προσείποιμεν· ἣν δὲ ὀρθότητά τε καὶ ὠφελίαν, ὅπερ ὑγιεινὸν τῶν προσφερομένων λέγομεν ἑκάστοτε, τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ εἶναι ἐν αὐτοῖς καὶ τὸ ὀρθότατον.
For example, I say that charm accompanies eating, drinking, and all nourishment, which charm we would call pleasure; but what we call correctness and utility, namely the healthy element of what is served on each occasion, this very thing is also the most correct element in them.
ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
CL. Very much so indeed.
ΑΘ. καὶ μὴν καὶ τῇ μαθήσει παρακολουθεῖν μὲν τό γε τῆς χάριτος, τὴν ἡδονήν, τὴν δὲ ὀρθότητα καὶ τὴν ὠφελίαν καὶ τὸ εὖ καὶ τὸ καλῶς τὴν ἀλήθειαν εἶναι τὴν ἀποτελοῦσαν.
ATH. And furthermore, that pleasure, the element of charm, accompanies learning, but correctness and utility, and what is well and beautifully done, is the truth that completes it.
ΚΛ. ἔστιν οὕτως.
CL. It is so.
ΑΘ. τί δὲ τῇ τῶν ὁμοίων ἐργασίᾳ ὅσαι τέχναι εἰκαστικαί;
ATH. And what about the production of likenesses, as many as are the imitative arts?
ἆρʼ οὐκ, ἂν τοῦτο ἐξεργάζωνται, τὸ μὲν ἡδονὴν ἐν αὐτοῖς γίγνεσθαι παρεπόμενον, ἐὰν γίγνηται, χάριν αὐτὸ δικαιότατον ἂν εἴη προσαγορεύειν;
If they accomplish this, would it not be most just to address the pleasure that arises in them, if it does arise, as its charm?
ΚΛ. ναί.
CL. Yes.
ΑΘ. τὴν δέ γε ὀρθότητά που τῶν τοιούτων ἡ ἰσότης ἄν, ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πᾶν εἰπεῖν, ἐξεργάζοιτο τοῦ τε τοσούτου καὶ τοῦ τοιούτου πρότερον, ἀλλʼ οὐχ ἡδονή.
ATH. But the correctness of such things, to speak generally, would be produced by the equality of both quantity and quality, rather than by pleasure.
ΚΛ. καλῶς.
CL. Excellent.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ἡδονῇ κρίνοιτʼ ἂν μόνον ἐκεῖνο ὀρθῶς, ὃ μήτε τινὰ ὠφελίαν μήτε ἀλήθειαν μήτε ὁμοιότητα ἀπεργαζόμενον παρέχεται, μηδʼ αὖ γε βλάβην, ἀλλʼ αὐτοῦ τούτου μόνου ἕνεκα γίγνοιτο τοῦ συμπαρεπομένου τοῖς ἄλλοις, τῆς χάριτος, ἣν δὴ κάλλιστά τις ὀνομάσαι ἂν ἡδονήν, ὅταν μηδὲν αὐτῇ τούτων ἐπακολουθῇ;
ATH. Therefore, would that thing alone be correctly judged by pleasure which produces and offers neither any utility nor truth nor likeness, nor on the other hand any harm, but arises solely for the sake of this very element that accompanies the others, namely charm—which one would most beautifully name pleasure, when none of these other things follow it?
ΚΛ. ἀβλαβῆ λέγεις ἡδονὴν μόνον.
CL. You speak of harmless pleasure alone.
ΑΘ. ναί, καὶ παιδιάν γε εἶναι τὴν αὐτὴν ταύτην λέγω τότε, ὅταν μήτε τι βλάπτῃ μήτε ὠφελῇ σπουδῆς ἢ λόγου ἄξιον.
ATH. Yes, and I say that this very same thing is play, at that time when it neither harms nor benefits anything worthy of serious attention or discussion.
ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
CL. You speak most truly.