§10.896ΑΘ. ὧι δὴ ψυχὴ τοὔνομα, τίς τούτου λόγος;
**ATH.**: What is the definition of that which has the name 'soul'?
ἔχομεν ἄλλον πλὴν τὸν νυνδὴ ῥηθέντα, τὴν δυναμένην αὐτὴν αὑτὴν κινεῖν κίνησιν; ΚΛ. τὸ ἑαυτὸ κινεῖν φῂς λόγον ἔχειν τὴν αὐτὴν οὐσίαν, ἥνπερ τοὔνομα ὃ δὴ πάντες ψυχὴν προσαγορεύομεν; ΑΘ. φημί γε·
Have we any other than the one just now mentioned, 'the motion able to move itself'? **CL.**: Do you say that 'to move itself' is the definition of the very same essence which has the name that we all address as 'soul'? **ATH.**: I do indeed.
εἰ δʼ ἔστι τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχον, ἆρα ἔτι ποθοῦμεν μὴ ἱκανῶς δεδεῖχθαι ψυχὴν ταὐτὸν ὂν καὶ τὴν πρώτην γένεσιν καὶ κίνησιν τῶν τε ὄντων καὶ γεγονότων καὶ ἐσομένων καὶ πάντων αὖ τῶν ἐναντίων τούτοις, ἐπειδή γε ἀνεφάνη μεταβολῆς τε καὶ κινήσεως ἁπάσης αἰτία ἅπασιν; ΚΛ. οὔκ, ἀλλὰ ἱκανώτατα δέδεικται ψυχὴ τῶν πάντων πρεσβυτάτη, γενομένη γε ἀρχὴ κινήσεως. ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν οὐχ ἡ διʼ ἕτερον ἐν ἄλλῳ γιγνομένη κίνησις, αὐτὸ δὲ ἐν αὑτῷ μηδέποτε παρέχουσα κινεῖσθαι μηδέν, δευτέρα τε, καὶ ὁπόσων ἀριθμῶν βούλοιτο ἄν τις ἀριθμεῖν αὐτὴν πολλοστήν, τοσούτων, σώματος οὖσα ὄντως ἀψύχου μεταβολή; ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς. ΑΘ. ὀρθῶς ἄρα καὶ κυρίως ἀληθέστατά τε καὶ τελεώτατα εἰρηκότες ἂν εἶμεν ψυχὴν μὲν προτέραν γεγονέναι σώματος ἡμῖν, σῶμα δὲ δεύτερόν τε καὶ ὕστερον, ψυχῆς ἀρχούσης, ἀρχόμενον κατὰ φύσιν. ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα μὲν οὖν. ΑΘ. μεμνήμεθά γε μὴν ὁμολογήσαντες ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ὡς, εἰ ψυχὴ φανείη πρεσβυτέρα σώματος οὖσα, καὶ τὰ ψυχῆς τῶν τοῦ σώματος ἔσοιτο πρεσβύτερα. ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν. ΑΘ. τρόποι δὲ καὶ ἤθη καὶ βουλήσεις καὶ λογισμοὶ καὶ δόξαι ἀληθεῖς ἐπιμέλειαί τε καὶ μνῆμαι πρότερα μήκους σωμάτων καὶ πλάτους καὶ βάθους καὶ ῥώμης εἴη γεγονότα ἄν, εἴπερ καὶ ψυχὴ σώματος. ΚΛ. ἀνάγκη. ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ὁμολογεῖν ἀναγκαῖον τῶν τε ἀγαθῶν αἰτίαν εἶναι ψυχὴν καὶ τῶν κακῶν καὶ καλῶν καὶ αἰσχρῶν δικαίων τε καὶ ἀδίκων καὶ πάντων τῶν ἐναντίων, εἴπερ τῶν πάντων γε αὐτὴν θήσομεν αἰτίαν; ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ; ΑΘ. ψυχὴν δὴ διοικοῦσαν καὶ ἐνοικοῦσαν ἐν ἅπασιν τοῖς πάντῃ κινουμένοις μῶν οὐ καὶ τὸν οὐρανὸν ἀνάγκη διοικεῖν φάναι; ΚΛ. τί μήν; ΑΘ. μίαν ἢ πλείους;
And if this is so, do we still feel that it has not been sufficiently shown that soul is the same as the first origin and motion of things that are, have been, and will be, and of all their opposites, since indeed it has been shown to be the cause of all change and motion in all things? **CL.**: No, on the contrary, it has been most sufficiently shown that soul is the oldest of all things, since it has become the beginning of motion. **ATH.**: Is not, then, the motion which arises in one thing through another, but never provides anything to move itself in itself, both second, and indeed of whatever number of classes one might wish to count it, of that many, being in truth the change of a lifeless body? **CL.**: Correct. **ATH.**: Correctly, then, and with authority, and most truly and perfectly, we should have said that soul has come into being for us prior to body, and body is second and posterior, ruled by soul which rules according to nature. **CL.**: Yes, most truly indeed. **ATH.**: And indeed, we remember agreeing in what went before that, if soul should appear to be older than body, the things of the soul would also be older than those of the body. **CL.**: Yes, altogether so. **ATH.**: Then characters, habits, wishes, reasonings, and true opinions, cares, and memories would have come into being prior to the length, breadth, depth, and strength of bodies, if indeed soul also is prior to body. **CL.**: Necessarily. **ATH.**: Is it then necessary to agree next that soul is the cause of both good and bad, beautiful and ugly, just and unjust, and of all opposites, if indeed we are to posit it as the cause of all things? **CL.**: For how could it not be? **ATH.**: Must we not also of necessity say that soul, directing and dwelling in all things that are moved in every way, also directs the heaven? **CL.**: Of course. **ATH.**: One, or more than one?
πλείους· ἐγὼ ὑπὲρ σφῷν ἀποκρινοῦμαι.
More than one; I will answer for you both.
δυοῖν μέν γέ που ἔλαττον μηδὲν τιθῶμεν, τῆς τε εὐεργέτιδος καὶ τῆς τἀναντία δυναμένης ἐξεργάζεσθαι. ΚΛ. σφόδρα ὀρθῶς εἴρηκας.
Let us posit not less than two, at any rate—the beneficent one and the one able to work the opposite. **CL.**: You have spoken most correctly.
§10.897ΑΘ. εἶεν.
**ATH.**: Very well.
ἄγει μὲν δὴ ψυχὴ πάντα τὰ κατʼ οὐρανὸν καὶ γῆν καὶ θάλατταν ταῖς αὑτῆς κινήσεσιν, αἷς ὀνόματά ἐστιν βούλεσθαι, σκοπεῖσθαι, ἐπιμελεῖσθαι, βουλεύεσθαι, δοξάζειν ὀρθῶς ἐψευσμένως, χαίρουσαν λυπουμένην, θαρροῦσαν φοβουμένην, μισοῦσαν στέργουσαν, καὶ πάσαις ὅσαι τούτων συγγενεῖς ἢ πρωτουργοὶ κινήσεις τὰς δευτερουργοὺς αὖ παραλαμβάνουσαι κινήσεις σωμάτων ἄγουσι πάντα εἰς αὔξησιν καὶ φθίσιν καὶ διάκρισιν καὶ σύγκρισιν καὶ τούτοις ἑπομένας θερμότητας ψύξεις, βαρύτητας κουφότητας, σκληρὸν καὶ μαλακόν, λευκὸν καὶ μέλαν, αὐστηρὸν καὶ γλυκύ, καὶ πᾶσιν οἷς ψυχὴ χρωμένη, νοῦν μὲν προσλαβοῦσα ἀεὶ θεὸν ὀρθῶς θεοῖς, ὀρθὰ καὶ εὐδαίμονα παιδαγωγεῖ πάντα, ἀνοίᾳ δὲ συγγενομένη πάντα αὖ τἀναντία τούτοις ἀπεργάζεται.
Soul indeed guides all things in heaven, on earth, and in the sea by its own motions, of which the names are wishing, consideration, attention, deliberation, opining truly or falsely, rejoicing, grieving, daring, fearing, hating, loving, and all such motions as are akin to these or are primary-working, which in turn taking over the secondary-working motions of bodies guide all things to increase and decrease, separation and combination, and to the properties that follow these—heat and cold, heaviness and lightness, hardness and softness, whiteness and blackness, bitterness and sweetness, and all things which soul uses; when indeed it always associates with intellect as a god rightly guiding gods, it guides all things rightly and happily, but when allied with folly, it works out in turn all the opposites to these.
τιθῶμεν ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχειν, ἢ ἔτι διστάζομεν εἰ ἑτέρως πως ἔχει; ΚΛ. οὐδαμῶς. ΑΘ. πότερον οὖν δὴ ψυχῆς γένος ἐγκρατὲς οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς καὶ πάσης τῆς περιόδου γεγονέναι φῶμεν;
Shall we posit that these things are so, or do we still doubt if they are otherwise? **CL.**: By no means. **ATH.**: Which class of soul, then, shall we say has become master of heaven and earth and the whole revolution?
τὸ φρόνιμον καὶ ἀρετῆς πλῆρες, ἢ τὸ μηδέτερα κεκτημένον;
The prudent and full of virtue, or that which possesses neither?
βούλεσθε οὖν πρὸς ταῦτα ὧδε ἀποκρινώμεθα; ΚΛ. πῶς; ΑΘ. εἰ μέν, ὦ θαυμάσιε, φῶμεν, ἡ σύμπασα οὐρανοῦ ὁδὸς ἅμα καὶ φορὰ καὶ τῶν ἐν αὐτῷ ὄντων ἁπάντων νοῦ κινήσει καὶ περιφορᾷ καὶ λογισμοῖς ὁμοίαν φύσιν ἔχει καὶ συγγενῶς ἔρχεται, δῆλον ὡς τὴν ἀρίστην ψυχὴν φατέον ἐπιμελεῖσθαι τοῦ κόσμου παντὸς καὶ ἄγειν αὐτὸν τὴν τοιαύτην ὁδὸν ἐκείνην. ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς.
Do you wish, then, that we answer this in the following way? **CL.**: How? **ATH.**: If, my admirable friend, we say that the whole path and motion of heaven and of all the things in it have a nature similar to the motion and revolution and reasonings of intellect, and proceed in a kindred manner, it is clear that we must say that the best soul cares for the whole cosmos and guides it along that very path. **CL.**: Correct.
ΑΘ. εἰ δὲ μανικῶς τε καὶ ἀτάκτως ἔρχεται, τὴν κακήν. ΚΛ. καὶ ταῦτα ὀρθῶς.
**ATH.**: But if it proceeds madly and disorderly, the bad one. **CL.**: That also is correct. **ATH.**: What nature, then, does the motion of intellect have?
ΑΘ. τίνα οὖν δὴ νοῦ κίνησις φύσιν ἔχει; τοῦτο ἤδη χαλεπόν, ὦ φίλοι, ἐρώτημα ἀποκρινόμενον εἰπεῖν ἐμφρόνως· διὸ δὴ καὶ ἐμὲ τῆς ἀποκρίσεως ὑμῖν δίκαιον τὰ νῦν προσλαμβάνειν. ΚΛ. εὖ λέγεις. ΑΘ. μὴ τοίνυν ἐξ ἐναντίας οἷον εἰς ἥλιον ἀποβλέποντες, νύκτα ἐν μεσημβρίᾳ ἐπαγόμενοι, ποιησώμεθα τὴν ἀπόκρισιν, ὡς νοῦν ποτε θνητοῖς ὄμμασιν ὀψόμενοί τε καὶ γνωσόμενοι ἱκανῶς· πρὸς δὲ εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐρωτωμένου βλέποντας ἀσφαλέστερον ὁρᾶν. ΚΛ. πῶς λέγεις; ΑΘ. ἧι προσέοικεν κινήσει νοῦς τῶν δέκα ἐκείνων κινήσεων, τὴν εἰκόνα λάβωμεν· ἣν συναναμνησθεὶς ὑμῖν ἐγὼ κοινῇ τὴν ἀπόκρισιν ποιήσομαι. ΚΛ. κάλλιστα ἂν λέγοις. ΑΘ. μεμνήμεθα τοίνυν τῶν τότε ἔτι τοῦτό γε, ὅτι τῶν πάντων τὰ μὲν κινεῖσθαι, τὰ δὲ μένειν ἔθεμεν; ΚΛ. ναί.
This is indeed a difficult question, my friends, to answer wisely; therefore it is just that I too should now receive your assistance in the answer. **CL.**: Well said. **ATH.**: Let us not, then, make our answer as if looking directly at the sun, bringing on night at midday, as though we are ever going to see and sufficiently know intellect with mortal eyes; but it is safer to look by gazing at an image of the thing asked. **CL.**: How do you mean? **ATH.**: Which of those ten motions intellect resembles, let us take that image; and by reminding myself of it together with you, I will make our joint answer. **CL.**: You would speak most excellently. **ATH.**: Let us then still remember at least this of what was said then, that we posited that of all things, some move, and others remain at rest? **CL.**: Yes.