§8.543εἶεν·
"Very well.
ταῦτα μὲν δὴ ὡμολόγηται, ὦ Γλαύκων, τῇ μελλούσῃ ἄκρως οἰκεῖν πόλει κοινὰς μὲν γυναῖκας, κοινοὺς δὲ παῖδας εἶναι καὶ πᾶσαν παιδείαν, ὡσαύτως δὲ τὰ ἐπιτηδεύματα κοινὰ ἐν πολέμῳ τε καὶ εἰρήνῃ, βασιλέας δὲ αὐτῶν εἶναι τοὺς ἐν φιλοσοφίᾳ τε καὶ πρὸς τὸν πόλεμον γεγονότας ἀρίστους. ὡμολόγηται, ἔφη.
These things, then, have been agreed upon, Glaucon, for the city that is to be governed in the highest degree, namely, that women are to be in common, children in common, and all education likewise, and similarly that pursuits are to be in common both in war and in peace, and that those who have turned out best in philosophy and with respect to war are to be their kings." "It has been agreed," he said.
καὶ μὴν καὶ τάδε συνεχωρήσαμεν, ὡς, ὅταν δὴ καταστῶσιν οἱ ἄρχοντες, ἄγοντες τοὺς στρατιώτας κατοικιοῦσιν εἰς οἰκήσεις οἵας προείπομεν, ἴδιον μὲν οὐδὲν οὐδενὶ ἐχούσας, κοινὰς δὲ πᾶσι·
"And indeed, we also conceded this, that when the rulers are established, they will take the soldiers and settle them in dwellings of the sort we mentioned before, having nothing private for anyone, but common to all.
πρὸς δὲ ταῖς τοιαύταις οἰκήσεσι, καὶ τὰς κτήσεις, εἰ μνημονεύεις, διωμολογησάμεθά που οἷαι ἔσονται αὐτοῖς. ἀλλὰ μνημονεύω, ἔφη, ὅτι γε οὐδὲν οὐδένα ᾠόμεθα δεῖν κεκτῆσθαι ὧν νῦν οἱ ἄλλοι, ὥσπερ δὲ ἀθλητάς τε πολέμου καὶ φύλακας, μισθὸν τῆς φυλακῆς δεχομένους εἰς ἐνιαυτὸν τὴν εἰς ταῦτα τροφὴν παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων, αὑτῶν τε δεῖν καὶ τῆς ἄλλης πόλεως ἐπιμελεῖσθαι. ὀρθῶς, ἔφην, λέγεις.
And in addition to such dwellings, we also thoroughly agreed, if you remember, what sort their possessions would be for them." "But I do remember," he said, "that we thought no one ought to possess any of the things that others now do, but rather like athletes of war and guardians, receiving as wages for their guardianship their maintenance for a year from the others for these things, they must take care of themselves and of the rest of the city." "You speak correctly," I said.
ἀλλʼ ἄγʼ, ἐπειδὴ τοῦτʼ ἀπετελέσαμεν, ἀναμνησθῶμεν πόθεν δεῦρο ἐξετραπόμεθα, ἵνα πάλιν τὴν αὐτὴν ἴωμεν. οὐ χαλεπόν, ἔφη.
"But come, since we have completed this, let us recall from where we turned off to this place, so that we may go the same way again." "It is not difficult," he said.
σχεδὸν γάρ, καθάπερ νῦν, ὡς διεληλυθὼς περὶ τῆς πόλεως τοὺς λόγους ἐποιοῦ, λέγων ὡς ἀγαθὴν μὲν τὴν τοιαύτην, οἵαν τότε διῆλθες, τιθείης πόλιν, καὶ ἄνδρα τὸν ἐκείνῃ ὅμοιον, καὶ ταῦτα, ὡς ἔοικας, καλλίω ἔτι ἔχων εἰπεῖν πόλιν τε καὶ ἄνδρα. §8.544ἀλλʼ οὖν δὴ τὰς ἄλλας ἡμαρτημένας ἔλεγες, εἰ αὕτη ὀρθή.
"For roughly, just as now, you were making arguments as though you had finished going through the matters concerning the city, saying that you would posit as good such a city as you then described, and the man similar to it, and that, as it seems, although you had an even more beautiful city and man to speak of." "At any rate, you were saying that the others were erroneous, if this one is correct.
τῶν δὲ λοιπῶν πολιτειῶν ἔφησθα, ὡς μνημονεύω, τέτταρα εἴδη εἶναι, ὧν καὶ πέρι λόγον ἄξιον εἴη ἔχειν καὶ ἰδεῖν αὐτῶν τὰ ἁμαρτήματα καὶ τοὺς ἐκείναις αὖ ὁμοίους, ἵνα πάντας αὐτοὺς ἰδόντες, καὶ ὁμολογησάμενοι τὸν ἄριστον καὶ τὸν κάκιστον ἄνδρα, ἐπισκεψαίμεθα εἰ ὁ ἄριστος εὐδαιμονέστατος καὶ ὁ κάκιστος ἀθλιώτατος, ἢ ἄλλως ἔχοι·
And of the remaining constitutions, you said, as I remember, that there are four kinds, about which it would also be worthwhile to have a discussion and to see their errors and those men who in turn are similar to them, so that having seen them all, and having agreed upon the best and the worst man, we might examine whether the best is happiest and the worst is most wretched, or whether it is otherwise.
καὶ ἐμοῦ ἐρομένου τίνας λέγοις τὰς τέτταρας πολιτείας, ἐν τούτῳ ὑπέλαβε Πολέμαρχός τε καὶ Ἀδείμαντος, καὶ οὕτω δὴ σὺ ἀναλαβὼν τὸν λόγον δεῦρʼ ἀφῖξαι. ὀρθότατα, εἶπον, ἐμνημόνευσας. πάλιν τοίνυν, ὥσπερ παλαιστής, τὴν αὐτὴν λαβὴν πάρεχε, καὶ τὸ αὐτὸ ἐμοῦ ἐρομένου πειρῶ εἰπεῖν ἅπερ τότε ἔμελλες λέγειν. ἐάνπερ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, δύνωμαι.
And when I asked which ones you meant by the four constitutions, at this point Polemarchus and Adeimantus interrupted, and thus you, having taken up the argument again, have arrived here." "Most correctly," I said, "you have remembered." "Therefore, like a wrestler, offer the same hold again, and when I ask the same thing, try to say exactly what you were then about to say." "If indeed I am able," I said.
καὶ μήν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἐπιθυμῶ γε καὶ αὐτὸς ἀκοῦσαι τίνας ἔλεγες τὰς τέτταρας πολιτείας. οὐ χαλεπῶς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀκούσῃ.
"And indeed," he said, "I myself also desire to hear which ones you meant by the four constitutions." "You will hear without difficulty," I said.
εἰσὶ γὰρ ἃς λέγω, αἵπερ καὶ ὀνόματα ἔχουσιν, ἥ τε ὑπὸ τῶν πολλῶν ἐπαινουμένη, ἡ Κρητική τε καὶ Λακωνικὴ αὕτη· καὶ δευτέρα καὶ δευτέρως ἐπαινουμένη, καλουμένη δʼ ὀλιγαρχία, συχνῶν γέμουσα κακῶν πολιτεία· ἥ τε ταύτῃ διάφορος καὶ ἐφεξῆς γιγνομένη δημοκρατία, καὶ ἡ γενναία δὴ τυραννὶς καὶ πασῶν τούτων διαφέρουσα, τέταρτόν τε καὶ ἔσχατον πόλεως νόσημα.
"For those I mean are ones which actually have names: the one praised by the many, this Cretan and Laconian constitution; and second, and praised in the second degree, called oligarchy, a constitution teeming with many evils; and the one different from this and arising next in order, democracy; and the famous tyranny, differing from all of these, the fourth and final disease of a city.
ἤ τινα ἄλλην ἔχεις ἰδέαν πολιτείας, ἥτις καὶ ἐν εἴδει διαφανεῖ τινι κεῖται; δυναστεῖαι γὰρ καὶ ὠνηταὶ βασιλεῖαι καὶ τοιαῦταί τινες πολιτεῖαι μεταξύ τι τούτων πού εἰσιν, εὕροι δʼ ἄν τις αὐτὰς οὐκ ἐλάττους περὶ τοὺς βαρβάρους ἢ τοὺς Ἕλληνας. πολλαὶ γοῦν καὶ ἄτοποι, ἔφη, λέγονται.
Or do you have some other form of constitution, which also lies in some distinct class of form?" "For dynasties and purchased kingships and other such constitutions are presumably somewhere in between these, and one would find them no less among the barbarians than among the Greeks." "At any rate, many and strange ones are spoken of," he said.
οἶσθʼ οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι καὶ ἀνθρώπων εἴδη τοσαῦτα ἀνάγκη τρόπων εἶναι, ὅσαπερ καὶ πολιτειῶν;
"Do you know, then," I said, "that there must be as many types of human characters as there are of constitutions?
ἢ οἴει ἐκ δρυός ποθεν ἢ ἐκ πέτρας τὰς πολιτείας γίγνεσθαι, ἀλλʼ οὐχὶ ἐκ τῶν ἠθῶν τῶν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν, ἃ ἂν ὥσπερ ῥέψαντα τἆλλα ἐφελκύσηται; οὐδαμῶς ἔγωγʼ, ἔφη, ἄλλοθεν ἢ ἐντεῦθεν.
Or do you think that constitutions arise from an oak somewhere or from a rock, and not from the characters in the cities, which, as if tipping the scale, drag everything else after them?" "Not at all from anywhere else than from there," he said.
οὐκοῦν εἰ τὰ τῶν πόλεων πέντε, καὶ αἱ τῶν ἰδιωτῶν κατασκευαὶ τῆς ψυχῆς πέντε ἂν εἶεν. τί μήν; τὸν μὲν δὴ τῇ ἀριστοκρατίᾳ ὅμοιον διεληλύθαμεν ἤδη, ὃν ἀγαθόν τε καὶ δίκαιον ὀρθῶς φαμεν εἶναι.
"Therefore, if the forms of cities are five, the constitutions of the souls of individuals would also be five." "Indeed, what else?" "Now we have already gone through the man who is similar to aristocracy, whom we correctly say is good and just."