§5.459παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. πῶς οὖν δὴ ὠφελιμώτατοι ἔσονται;
“Entirely so.” “How then indeed will they be most beneficial?
τόδε μοι λέγε, ὦ Γλαύκων· ὁρῶ γάρ σου ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ καὶ κύνας θηρευτικοὺς καὶ τῶν γενναίων ὀρνίθων μάλα συχνούς· ἆρʼ οὖν, ὦ πρὸς Διός, προσέσχηκάς τι τοῖς τούτων γάμοις τε καὶ παιδοποιίᾳ; τὸ ποῖον; ἔφη. πρῶτον μὲν αὐτῶν τούτων, καίπερ ὄντων γενναίων, ἆρʼ οὐκ εἰσί τινες καὶ γίγνονται ἄριστοι; εἰσίν. πότερον οὖν ἐξ ἁπάντων ὁμοίως γεννᾷς, ἢ προθυμῇ ὅτι μάλιστα ἐκ τῶν ἀρίστων; ἐκ τῶν ἀρίστων.
Tell me this, Glaukon: for I see in your house both hunting dogs and a great many noble birds; have you then, by Zeus, paid any attention to their marriages and breeding?” “In what way?” he said. “First of all, among these very animals, although they are noble, are there not some who are and become the best?” “There are.” “Do you then breed from all of them equally, or do you strive as much as possible to breed from the best?” “From the best.” “And what about age?
τί δʼ; ἐκ τῶν νεωτάτων ἢ ἐκ τῶν γεραιτάτων ἢ ἐξ ἀκμαζόντων ὅτι μάλιστα; ἐξ ἀκμαζόντων. καὶ ἂν μὴ οὕτω γεννᾶται, πολύ σοι ἡγῇ χεῖρον ἔσεσθαι τό τε τῶν ὀρνίθων καὶ τὸ τῶν κυνῶν γένος; ἔγωγʼ, ἔφη.
From the youngest, or from the oldest, or as much as possible from those in their prime?” “From those in their prime.” “And if they are not bred in this way, do you think that the breed of birds and of dogs will be much worse for you?” “I do,” he said. “And what do you think of horses,” I said, “and the other animals?
τί δὲ ἵππων οἴει, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ζῴων; ἦ ἄλλῃ πῃ ἔχειν; ἄτοπον μεντἄν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, εἴη. βαβαῖ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ φίλε ἑταῖρε, ὡς ἄρα σφόδρα ἡμῖν δεῖ ἄκρων εἶναι τῶν ἀρχόντων, εἴπερ καὶ περὶ τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος ὡσαύτως ἔχει. ἀλλὰ μὲν δὴ ἔχει, ἔφη· ἀλλὰ τί δή; ὅτι ἀνάγκη αὐτοῖς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, φαρμάκοις πολλοῖς χρῆσθαι.
Is it any other way?” “It would indeed be strange,” he said, “if it were otherwise.” “My word!” I said, “dear companion, how very outstanding indeed our rulers must be, if the same holds true for the race of human beings.” “But indeed it does,” he said; “but why do you say so?” “Because it is necessary for them,” I said, “to make use of many drugs.
ἰατρὸν δέ που μὴ δεομένοις μὲν σώμασι φαρμάκων, ἀλλὰ διαίτῃ ἐθελόντων ὑπακούειν, καὶ φαυλότερον ἐξαρκεῖν ἡγούμεθα εἶναι· ὅταν δὲ δὴ καὶ φαρμακεύειν δέῃ, ἴσμεν ὅτι ἀνδρειοτέρου δεῖ τοῦ ἰατροῦ. ἀληθῆ· ἀλλὰ πρὸς τί λέγεις; πρὸς τόδε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· συχνῷ τῷ ψεύδει καὶ τῇ ἀπάτῃ κινδυνεύει ἡμῖν δεήσειν χρῆσθαι τοὺς ἄρχοντας ἐπʼ ὠφελίᾳ τῶν ἀρχομένων.
We believe that for bodies that do not need drugs, but are willing to obey a regimen, even a more ordinary doctor is sufficient; but when it is indeed necessary to administer drugs, we know that a more courageous doctor is needed.” “True; but to what end do you say this?” “To this end,” I said: “our rulers will risk having to make frequent use of falsehood and deceit for the benefit of the ruled.
ἔφαμεν δέ που ἐν φαρμάκου εἴδει πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα χρήσιμα εἶναι. καὶ ὀρθῶς γε, ἔφη. ἐν τοῖς γάμοις τοίνυν καὶ παιδοποιίαις ἔοικε τὸ ὀρθὸν τοῦτο γίγνεσθαι οὐκ ἐλάχιστον. πῶς δή; δεῖ μέν, εἶπον, ἐκ τῶν ὡμολογημένων τοὺς ἀρίστους ταῖς ἀρίσταις συγγίγνεσθαι ὡς πλειστάκις, τοὺς δὲ φαυλοτάτους ταῖς φαυλοτάταις τοὐναντίον, καὶ τῶν μὲν τὰ ἔκγονα τρέφειν, τῶν δὲ μή, εἰ μέλλει τὸ ποίμνιον ὅτι ἀκρότατον εἶναι, καὶ ταῦτα πάντα γιγνόμενα λανθάνειν πλὴν αὐτοὺς τοὺς ἄρχοντας, εἰ αὖ ἡ ἀγέλη τῶν φυλάκων ὅτι μάλιστα ἀστασίαστος ἔσται. ὀρθότατα, ἔφη.
And we said somewhere, indeed, that all such things are useful in the form of a drug.” “And rightly so,” he said. “In marriages and the procreation of children, then, it seems this right thing occurs in no small degree.” “How indeed?” “It is necessary,” I said, “from our agreements, that the best men mate with the best women as often as possible, and the most inferior men with the most inferior women on the contrary; and the offspring of the former must be reared, but those of the latter must not, if the flock is to be of the highest quality; and all these things being done must remain secret from everyone except the rulers themselves, if again the herd of guardians is to be as free from faction as possible.” “Most rightly,” he said.
§5.460οὐκοῦν δὴ ἑορταί τινες νομοθετητέαι ἐν αἷς συνάξομεν τάς τε νύμφας καὶ τοὺς νυμφίους καὶ θυσίαι, καὶ ὕμνοι ποιητέοι τοῖς ἡμετέροις ποιηταῖς πρέποντες τοῖς γιγνομένοις γάμοις·
“Therefore, indeed, certain festivals must be established by law in which we shall bring together the brides and bridegrooms, and sacrifices and hymns must be composed by our poets appropriate to the marriages that take place.
τὸ δὲ πλῆθος τῶν γάμων ἐπὶ τοῖς ἄρχουσι ποιήσομεν, ἵνʼ ὡς μάλιστα διασῴζωσι τὸν αὐτὸν ἀριθμὸν τῶν ἀνδρῶν, πρὸς πολέμους τε καὶ νόσους καὶ πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα ἀποσκοποῦντες, καὶ μήτε μεγάλη ἡμῖν ἡ πόλις κατὰ τὸ δυνατὸν μήτε σμικρὰ γίγνηται. ὀρθῶς, ἔφη. κλῆροι δή τινες οἶμαι ποιητέοι κομψοί, ὥστε τὸν φαῦλον ἐκεῖνον αἰτιᾶσθαι ἐφʼ ἑκάστης συνέρξεως τύχην ἀλλὰ μὴ τοὺς ἄρχοντας. καὶ μάλα, ἔφη.
But the number of marriages we shall place in the hands of the rulers, so that they may preserve the same number of men as much as possible, looking to wars and diseases and all such things, so that our city, as far as possible, becomes neither great nor small.” “Rightly,” he said. “Certain ingenious lots, I think, must be made, so that that inferior man may blame chance on each coupling, but not the rulers.” “Very much so,” he said.
καὶ τοῖς ἀγαθοῖς γέ που τῶν νέων ἐν πολέμῳ ἢ ἄλλοθί που γέρα δοτέον καὶ ἆθλα ἄλλα τε καὶ ἀφθονεστέρα ἡ ἐξουσία τῆς τῶν γυναικῶν συγκοιμήσεως, ἵνα καὶ ἅμα μετὰ προφάσεως ὡς πλεῖστοι τῶν παίδων ἐκ τῶν τοιούτων σπείρωνται. ὀρθῶς. οὐκοῦν καὶ τὰ ἀεὶ γιγνόμενα ἔκγονα παραλαμβάνουσαι αἱ ἐπὶ τούτων ἐφεστηκυῖαι ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἀνδρῶν εἴτε γυναικῶν εἴτε ἀμφότερα—κοιναὶ μὲν γάρ που καὶ ἀρχαὶ γυναιξί τε καὶ ἀνδράσιν— ναί. τὰ μὲν δὴ τῶν ἀγαθῶν, δοκῶ, λαβοῦσαι εἰς τὸν σηκὸν οἴσουσιν παρά τινας τροφοὺς χωρὶς οἰκούσας ἔν τινι μέρει τῆς πόλεως· τὰ δὲ τῶν χειρόνων, καὶ ἐάν τι τῶν ἑτέρων ἀνάπηρον γίγνηται, ἐν ἀπορρήτῳ τε καὶ ἀδήλῳ κατακρύψουσιν ὡς πρέπει. εἴπερ μέλλει, ἔφη, καθαρὸν τὸ γένος τῶν φυλάκων ἔσεσθαι. οὐκοῦν καὶ τροφῆς οὗτοι ἐπιμελήσονται τάς τε μητέρας ἐπὶ τὸν σηκὸν ἄγοντες ὅταν σπαργῶσι, πᾶσαν μηχανὴν μηχανώμενοι ὅπως μηδεμία τὸ αὑτῆς αἰσθήσεται, καὶ ἄλλας γάλα ἐχούσας ἐκπορίζοντες, ἐὰν μὴ αὐταὶ ἱκαναὶ ὦσι, καὶ αὐτῶν τούτων ἐπιμελήσονται ὅπως μέτριον χρόνον θηλάσονται, ἀγρυπνίας δὲ καὶ τὸν ἄλλον πόνον τίτθαις τε καὶ τροφοῖς παραδώσουσιν; πολλὴν ῥᾳστώνην, ἔφη, λέγεις τῆς παιδοποιίας ταῖς τῶν φυλάκων γυναιξίν. πρέπει γάρ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
“And to those of the young who are good in war or elsewhere, privileges and other prizes must indeed be given, and especially a more abundant permission for sleeping with women, so that at the same time, with this pretext, as many of the children as possible may be begotten from such men.” “Rightly.” “Then indeed, the authorities appointed over these matters, whether men or women or both—for indeed, public offices are common to women and men—” “Yes.” “taking the offspring of the good, I think, they will carry them to the pen, to certain nurses dwelling separately in some part of the city; but those of the inferior, and if any of the others is born deformed, they will hide them away in an unspeakable and secret place, as is fitting.” “If indeed,” he said, “the race of guardians is to be pure.” “And these officers will also care for their nurture, bringing the mothers to the pen when their breasts are full of milk, employing every device so that no mother will recognize her own child; and they will provide other women who have milk, if the mothers themselves are not sufficient; and they will take care of these very mothers so that they suckle for a moderate time, and they will hand over sleepless nights and other labor to wet-nurses and governesses.” “You speak of great ease of childbearing,” he said, “for the wives of the guardians.” “For it is fitting,” I said. “But let us go through the next thing we proposed.
τὸ δʼ ἐφεξῆς διέλθωμεν ὃ προυθέμεθα. ἔφαμεν γὰρ δὴ ἐξ ἀκμαζόντων δεῖν τὰ ἔκγονα γίγνεσθαι. ἀληθῆ. ἆρʼ οὖν σοι συνδοκεῖ μέτριος χρόνος ἀκμῆς τὰ εἴκοσι ἔτη γυναικί, ἀνδρὶ δὲ τὰ τριάκοντα; τὰ ποῖα αὐτῶν; ἔφη. γυναικὶ μέν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀρξαμένῃ ἀπὸ εἰκοσιέτιδος μέχρι τετταρακονταέτιδος τίκτειν τῇ πόλει· ἀνδρὶ δέ, ἐπειδὰν τὴν ὀξυτάτην δρόμου ἀκμὴν παρῇ, τὸ ἀπὸ τούτου γεννᾶν τῇ πόλει μέχρι πεντεκαιπεντηκονταέτους.
For we said indeed that offspring must be produced from those in their prime.” “True.” “Does then a period of twenty years for a woman, and thirty for a man, seem to you a moderate time for their prime?” “Which periods of theirs?” he said. “For a woman,” I said, “beginning from her twentieth year to her fortieth, to bear children for the city; and for a man, when he has passed the sharpest peak of his running, to beget children for the city from that time until his fifty-fifth year.”