§4.419καὶ ὁ Ἀδείμαντος ὑπολαβών, τί οὖν, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀπολογήσῃ, ἐάν τίς σε φῇ μὴ πάνυ τι εὐδαίμονας ποιεῖν τούτους τοὺς ἄνδρας, καὶ ταῦτα διʼ ἑαυτούς, ὧν ἔστι μὲν ἡ πόλις τῇ ἀληθείᾳ, οἱ δὲ μηδὲν ἀπολαύουσιν ἀγαθὸν τῆς πόλεως, οἷον ἄλλοι ἀγρούς τε κεκτημένοι καὶ οἰκίας οἰκοδομούμενοι καλὰς καὶ μεγάλας, καὶ ταύταις πρέπουσαν κατασκευὴν κτώμενοι, καὶ θυσίας θεοῖς ἰδίας θύοντες, καὶ ξενοδοκοῦντες, καὶ δὴ καὶ ἃ νυνδὴ σὺ ἔλεγες, χρυσόν τε καὶ ἄργυρον κεκτημένοι καὶ πάντα ὅσα νομίζεται τοῖς μέλλουσιν μακαρίοις εἶναι;
And Adeimantus, interrupting, said, "What then, Socrates, will be your defense if someone says that you are not making these men very happy, and that too on their own account, they to whom the city in truth belongs, yet they enjoy no good from the city, unlike others who possess lands, build beautiful and grand houses, acquire appropriate furnishings for them, offer private sacrifices to the gods, host guests, and indeed, what you were just now saying, possess gold and silver and everything that is customary for those who are going to be blessed?
§4.420ἀλλʼ ἀτεχνῶς, φαίη ἄν, ὥσπερ ἐπίκουροι μισθωτοὶ ἐν τῇ πόλει φαίνονται καθῆσθαι οὐδὲν ἄλλο ἢ φρουροῦντες. ναί, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ ταῦτά γε ἐπισίτιοι καὶ οὐδὲ μισθὸν πρὸς τοῖς σιτίοις λαμβάνοντες ὥσπερ οἱ ἄλλοι, ὥστε οὐδʼ ἂν ἀποδημῆσαι βούλωνται ἰδίᾳ, ἐξέσται αὐτοῖς, οὐδʼ ἑταίραις διδόναι, οὐδʼ ἀναλίσκειν ἄν ποι βούλωνται ἄλλοσε, οἷα δὴ οἱ εὐδαίμονες δοκοῦντες εἶναι ἀναλίσκουσι.
But absolutely," he would say, "like hired auxiliaries, they seem to sit in the city doing nothing other than keeping guard." "Yes," I said, "and that too receiving only their food and not even receiving a wage in addition to their food like the others, so that even if they wish to travel abroad privately, it will not be permitted to them, nor to give to courtesans, nor to spend wherever else they might wish, as those who are reputed to be happy spend.
ταῦτα καὶ ἄλλα τοιαῦτα συχνὰ τῆς κατηγορίας ἀπολείπεις. ἀλλʼ, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἔστω καὶ ταῦτα κατηγορημένα. τί οὖν δὴ ἀπολογησόμεθα, φῄς; ναί.
You are leaving out these and many other such things from your accusation." "Well," he said, "let these also be added to the accusation." "How then shall we defend ourselves, you ask?" "Yes." "By traveling the same path," I said, "we shall find, as I think, what must be said.
τὸν αὐτὸν οἶμον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πορευόμενοι εὑρήσομεν, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι, ἃ λεκτέα. ἐροῦμεν γὰρ ὅτι θαυμαστὸν μὲν ἂν οὐδὲν εἴη εἰ καὶ οὗτοι οὕτως εὐδαιμονέστατοί εἰσιν, οὐ μὴν πρὸς τοῦτο βλέποντες τὴν πόλιν οἰκίζομεν, ὅπως ἕν τι ἡμῖν ἔθνος ἔσται διαφερόντως εὔδαιμον, ἀλλʼ ὅπως ὅτι μάλιστα ὅλη ἡ πόλις.
For we shall say that while it would be nothing surprising if these men were also very happy in this way, nevertheless we are not founding the city looking to this, so that some one class among us should be outstandingly happy, but so that the whole city should be so as much as possible.
ᾠήθημεν γὰρ ἐν τῇ τοιαύτῃ μάλιστα ἂν εὑρεῖν δικαιοσύνην καὶ αὖ ἐν τῇ κάκιστα οἰκουμένῃ ἀδικίαν, κατιδόντες δὲ κρῖναι ἂν ὃ πάλαι ζητοῦμεν.
For we thought that in such a city we would especially find justice, and again in the worst governed city we would find injustice, and having observed them, we could judge what we have long been seeking.
νῦν μὲν οὖν, ὡς οἰόμεθα, τὴν εὐδαίμονα πλάττομεν οὐκ ἀπολαβόντες ὀλίγους ἐν αὐτῇ τοιούτους τινὰς τιθέντες, ἀλλʼ ὅλην· αὐτίκα δὲ τὴν ἐναντίαν σκεψόμεθα.
Now, then, as we believe, we are fashioning the happy city, not by taking out a few in it and making them happy, but the whole; and immediately we shall examine the opposite.
ὥσπερ οὖν ἂν εἰ ἡμᾶς ἀνδριάντα γράφοντας προσελθών τις ἔψεγε λέγων ὅτι οὐ τοῖς καλλίστοις τοῦ ζῴου τὰ κάλλιστα φάρμακα προστίθεμεν—οἱ γὰρ ὀφθαλμοὶ κάλλιστον ὂν οὐκ ὀστρείῳ ἐναληλιμμένοι εἶεν ἀλλὰ μέλανι—μετρίως ἂν ἐδοκοῦμεν πρὸς αὐτὸν ἀπολογεῖσθαι λέγοντες· ὦ θαυμάσιε, μὴ οἴου δεῖν ἡμᾶς οὕτω καλοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς γράφειν, ὥστε μηδὲ ὀφθαλμοὺς φαίνεσθαι, μηδʼ αὖ τἆλλα μέρη, ἀλλʼ ἄθρει εἰ τὰ προσήκοντα ἑκάστοις ἀποδιδόντες τὸ ὅλον καλὸν ποιοῦμεν·
Just as if we were painting a statue and someone came up and blamed us, saying that we do not apply the most beautiful colors to the most beautiful parts of the animal—for the eyes, which are the most beautiful part, would not be painted with purple but with black—we would seem to make a reasonable defense to him by saying: 'O wonderful man, do not think that we ought to paint the eyes so beautifully that they do not even look like eyes, nor the other parts likewise, but look and see whether, by rendering what is appropriate to each, we make the whole beautiful.
καὶ δὴ καὶ νῦν μὴ ἀνάγκαζε ἡμᾶς τοιαύτην εὐδαιμονίαν τοῖς φύλαξι προσάπτειν, ἣ ἐκείνους πᾶν μᾶλλον ἀπεργάσεται ἢ φύλακας.
And so now, do not compel us to attach such a happiness to the guardians as will make them anything rather than guardians.
ἐπιστάμεθα γὰρ καὶ τοὺς γεωργοὺς ξυστίδας ἀμφιέσαντες καὶ χρυσὸν περιθέντες πρὸς ἡδονὴν ἐργάζεσθαι κελεύειν τὴν γῆν, καὶ τοὺς κεραμέας κατακλίναντες ἐπὶ δεξιὰ πρὸς τὸ πῦρ διαπίνοντάς τε καὶ εὐωχουμένους, τὸν τροχὸν παραθεμένους, ὅσον ἂν ἐπιθυμῶσι κεραμεύειν, καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους πάντας τοιούτῳ τρόπῳ μακαρίους ποιεῖν, ἵνα δὴ ὅλη ἡ πόλις εὐδαιμονῇ.
For we know how to clothe the farmers in fine robes and put gold on them and bid them work the earth for pleasure, and to lay the potters down on their right sides by the fire, drinking and feasting, with their wheel set before them, making pottery as much as they desire, and to make all the others blessed in such a way, so that the whole city may be happy.'"