§3.390καλῶς.
"Excellent.
τί δέ;
And what of this?
τὰ τοιάδε—
"
οἰνοβαρές, κυνὸς ὄμματʼ ἔχων, κραδίην δʼ ἐλάφοιο
"
καὶ τὰ τούτων ἑξῆς ἆρα καλῶς, καὶ ὅσα ἄλλα τις ἐν λόγῳ ἢ ἐν ποιήσει εἴρηκε νεανιεύματα ἰδιωτῶν εἰς ἄρχοντας; οὐ καλῶς. οὐ γὰρ οἶμαι εἴς γε σωφροσύνην νέοις ἐπιτήδεια ἀκούειν· εἰ δέ τινα ἄλλην ἡδονὴν παρέχεται, θαυμαστὸν οὐδέν.
Things like this: "You wine-sack, with the eyes of a dog and the heart of a deer, "and the things following these, are they well said? And all other impudent remarks of private persons against their rulers, which anyone has spoken in prose or poetry?" "Not well." "For I do not think they are suitable for young people to hear, at least with respect to temperance; but if they afford some other pleasure, that is not surprising.
ἢ πῶς σοι φαίνεται; οὕτως, ἔφη.
Or how does it seem to you?" "So it seems," he said.
τί δέ;
"And what of this?
ποιεῖν ἄνδρα τὸν σοφώτατον λέγοντα ὡς δοκεῖ αὐτῷ κάλλιστον εἶναι πάντων, ὅταν—
"
παρὰ πλεῖαι ὦσι τράπεζαι
"
"
σίτου καὶ κρειῶν, μέθυ δʼ ἐκ κρητῆρος ἀφύσσων
οἰνοχόος φορέῃσι καὶ ἐγχείῃ δεπάεσσι,
"
δοκεῖ σοι ἐπιτήδειον εἶναι πρὸς ἐγκράτειαν ἑαυτοῦ ἀκούειν νέῳ;
To represent the wisest man as saying that it seems to him to be the finest of all things when: "the tables are full "" of bread and meat, and the wine-bearer drawing wine from the bowl carries it and pours it into the cups, "does it seem to you to be suitable for a young person to hear for the sake of self-control?
ἢ τὸ—
"
λιμῷ δʼ οἴκτιστον θανέειν καὶ πότμον ἐπισπεῖν;
Or this: "And it is most pitiful to die of hunger and meet one's fate?
"
ἢ Δία, καθευδόντων τῶν ἄλλων θεῶν τε καὶ ἀνθρώπων ὡς, μόνος ἐγρηγορὼς ἃ ἐβουλεύσατο, τούτων πάντων ῥᾳδίως ἐπιλανθανόμενον διὰ τὴν τῶν ἀφροδισίων ἐπιθυμίαν, καὶ οὕτως ἐκπλαγέντα ἰδόντα τὴν Ἥραν, ὥστε μηδʼ εἰς τὸ δωμάτιον ἐθέλειν ἐλθεῖν, ἀλλʼ αὐτοῦ βουλόμενον χαμαὶ συγγίγνεσθαι, λέγοντα ὡς οὕτως ὑπὸ ἐπιθυμίας ἔχεται, ὡς οὐδʼ ὅτε τὸ πρῶτον ἐφοίτων πρὸς ἀλλήλους
"φίλους λήθοντε τοκῆας"
· οὐδὲ Ἄρεώς τε καὶ ἀφροδίτης ὑπὸ Ἡφαίστου δεσμὸν διʼ ἕτερα τοιαῦτα. οὐ μὰ τὸν Δία, ἦ δʼ ὅς, οὔ μοι φαίνεται ἐπιτήδειον. ἀλλʼ εἴ πού τινες, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καρτερίαι πρὸς ἅπαντα καὶ λέγονται καὶ πράττονται ὑπὸ ἐλλογίμων ἀνδρῶν, θεατέον τε καὶ ἀκουστέον, οἷον καὶ τὸ—
"
στῆθος δὲ πλήξας κραδίην ἠνίπαπε μύθῳ·
"Or Zeus, who, while the other gods and men slept, slept not but was awake to what he had planned, easily forgetting all of these things because of his desire for love-making, and was so struck at the sight of Hera that he did not even wish to go into the chamber, but wanted to couple with her right there on the ground, saying that he was so possessed by desire as not even when they first went to one another, "unbeknownst to their dear parents; "nor the binding of Ares and Aphrodite by Hephaestus for other such reasons?" "No, by Zeus," he said, "it does not seem to me suitable." "But if anywhere," I said, "any acts of endurance against all things are both spoken of and performed by famous men, these we must look at and listen to, such as also this: "Striking his breast, he rebuked his heart with words: Endure now, heart; you have endured even worse than this before.
τέτλαθι δή, κραδίη· καὶ κύντερον ἄλλο ποτʼ ἔτλης. "
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
"" "By all means, indeed," he said.
οὐ μὲν δὴ δωροδόκους γε ἐατέον εἶναι τοὺς ἄνδρας οὐδὲ φιλοχρημάτους. οὐδαμῶς. οὐδʼ ᾀστέον αὐτοῖς ὅτι—
"
δῶρα θεοὺς πείθει, δῶρʼ αἰδοίους βασιλῆας· "
οὐδὲ τὸν τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως παιδαγωγὸν Φοίνικα ἐπαινετέον ὡς μετρίως ἔλεγε συμβουλεύων αὐτῷ δῶρα μὲν λαβόντι ἐπαμύνειν τοῖς Ἀχαιοῖς, ἄνευ δὲ δώρων μὴ ἀπαλλάττεσθαι τῆς μήνιος. §3.391οὐδʼ αὐτὸν τὸν Ἀχιλλέα ἀξιώσομεν οὐδʼ ὁμολογήσομεν οὕτω φιλοχρήματον εἶναι, ὥστε παρὰ τοῦ Ἀγαμέμνονος δῶρα λαβεῖν, καὶ τιμὴν αὖ λαβόντα νεκροῦ ἀπολύειν, ἄλλως δὲ μὴ ʼθέλειν. οὔκουν δίκαιόν γε, ἔφη, ἐπαινεῖν τὰ τοιαῦτα. ὀκνῶ δέ γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, διʼ Ὅμηρον λέγειν ὅτι οὐδʼ ὅσιον ταῦτά γε κατὰ Ἀχιλλέως φάναι καὶ ἄλλων λεγόντων πείθεσθαι, καὶ αὖ ὡς πρὸς τὸν Ἀπόλλω εἶπεν—
"
ἔβλαψάς μʼ ἑκάεργε, θεῶν ὀλοώτατε πάντων· ἦ σʼ ἂν τισαίμην, εἴ μοι δύναμίς γε παρείη· "
καὶ ὡς πρὸς τὸν ποταμόν, θεὸν ὄντα, ἀπειθῶς εἶχεν καὶ μάχεσθαι ἕτοιμος ἦν, καὶ αὖ τὰς τοῦ ἑτέρου ποταμοῦ Σπερχειοῦ ἱερὰς τρίχας
"Πατρόκλῳ ἥρωϊ"
, ἔφη,
"κόμην ὀπάσαιμι φέρεσθαι"
, νεκρῷ ὄντι, καὶ ὡς ἔδρασεν τοῦτο, οὐ πειστέον· τάς τε αὖ Ἕκτορος ἕλξεις περὶ τὸ σῆμα τὸ Πατρόκλου καὶ τὰς τῶν ζωγρηθέντων σφαγὰς εἰς τὴν πυράν, σύμπαντα ταῦτα οὐ φήσομεν ἀληθῆ εἰρῆσθαι, οὐδʼ ἐάσομεν πείθεσθαι τοὺς ἡμετέρους ὡς Ἀχιλλεύς, θεᾶς ὢν παῖς καὶ Πηλέως, σωφρονεστάτου τε καὶ τρίτου ἀπὸ Διός, καὶ ὑπὸ τῷ σοφωτάτῳ Χείρωνι τεθραμμένος, τοσαύτης ἦν ταραχῆς πλέως, ὥστʼ ἔχειν ἐν αὑτῷ νοσήματε δύο ἐναντίω ἀλλήλοιν, ἀνελευθερίαν μετὰ φιλοχρηματίας καὶ αὖ ὑπερηφανίαν θεῶν τε καὶ ἀνθρώπων. ὀρθῶς, ἔφη, λέγεις.
"And indeed we must not allow our men to be takers of bribes or lovers of money." "By no means." "Nor must they sing to them that: "Gifts persuade gods, gifts persuade venerable kings; "nor must we praise Phoenix, the tutor of Achilles, as speaking moderately when advising him to defend the Achaeans if he received gifts, but without gifts not to lay aside his wrath." "Nor shall we deem Achilles himself, or agree that he was, so lover of money as to accept gifts from Agamemnon, and again, having received ransom, to release a dead body, but otherwise to be unwilling." "It is certainly not right," he said, "to praise such things." "But I hesitate," I said, "for Homer's sake, to say that it is not even holy to say these things against Achilles and to believe others who say them, and again what he said to Apollo: "You have harmed me, Far-darter, most destructive of all gods; surely I would take vengeance on you, if only power were mine; "and how he was disobedient to the river, who was a god, and was ready to fight him, and again, that he said he would offer the sacred hair of the other river, Spercheius, "to the hero Patroclus, "he said, "I would give my hair to be carried, "though he was a corpse, and we must not believe that he did this; and again, the dragging of Hector around the tomb of Patroclus and the slaughter of the captives on the pyre, all these things we shall say were not spoken truly, nor shall we allow our people to believe that Achilles, being the son of a goddess and of Peleus—the most temperate of men and third in descent from Zeus—and reared under the wisest Chiron, was full of such great confusion as to have within himself two diseases contrary to one another: illiberality with love of money, and on the other hand, arrogance toward both gods and men." "You speak rightly," he said.
μὴ τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μηδὲ τάδε πειθώμεθα μηδʼ ἐῶμεν λέγειν, ὡς Θησεὺς Ποσειδῶνος ὑὸς Πειρίθους τε Διὸς ὥρμησαν οὕτως ἐπὶ δεινὰς ἁρπαγάς, μηδέ τινʼ ἄλλον θεοῦ παῖδά τε καὶ ἥρω τολμῆσαι ἂν δεινὰ καὶ ἀσεβῆ ἐργάσασθαι, οἷα νῦν καταψεύδονται αὐτῶν· ἀλλὰ προσαναγκάζωμεν τοὺς ποιητὰς ἢ μὴ τούτων αὐτὰ ἔργα φάναι ἢ τούτους μὴ εἶναι θεῶν παῖδας, ἀμφότερα δὲ μὴ λέγειν, μηδὲ ἡμῖν ἐπιχειρεῖν πείθειν τοὺς νέους ὡς οἱ θεοὶ κακὰ γεννῶσιν, καὶ ἥρωες ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲν βελτίους· ὅπερ γὰρ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἐλέγομεν, οὔθʼ ὅσια ταῦτα οὔτε ἀληθῆ· ἐπεδείξαμεν γάρ που ὅτι ἐκ θεῶν κακὰ γίγνεσθαι ἀδύνατον. πῶς γὰρ οὔ; καὶ μὴν τοῖς γε ἀκούουσιν βλαβερά·
"Let us not then," I said, "believe these things either, nor allow them to say that Theseus, son of Poseidon, and Peirithous, son of Zeus, set forth on such terrible abductions, nor that any other child of a god and hero would have dared to commit terrible and impious deeds, such as they now falsely charge them with; but let us compel the poets either not to say that these deeds were theirs, or that these were not the children of gods, but not to say both, nor to try to persuade our young men that the gods beget evils, and that heroes are no better than ordinary men; for as we were saying in the previous part, these things are neither holy nor true; for we showed, I believe, that it is impossible for evils to come from gods." "How indeed could it not be so?" "And indeed they are harmful to those who hear them; for everyone will have excuse for himself when he is bad, being persuaded that after all such things are done and were done by: "those near of kin to the gods, close to Zeus, whose altar to ancestral Zeus is on the Idaean mount in the high air, "and: "and not yet in them has the blood of the divinities faded.
πᾶς γὰρ ἑαυτῷ συγγνώμην ἕξει κακῷ ὄντι, πεισθεὶς ὡς ἄρα τοιαῦτα πράττουσίν τε καὶ ἔπραττον καὶ—
"
οἱ θεῶν ἀγχίσποροι,
οἱ Ζηνὸς ἐγγύς, ὧν κατʼ Ἰδαῖον πάγον
Διὸς πατρῴου βωμός ἐστʼ ἐν αἰθέρι,
"
καὶ—
"
οὔ πώ σφιν ἐξίτηλον αἷμα δαιμόνων. "
"