§3.386τὰ μὲν δὴ περὶ θεούς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τοιαῦτʼ ἄττα, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἀκουστέον τε καὶ οὐκ ἀκουστέον εὐθὺς ἐκ παίδων τοῖς θεούς τε τιμήσουσιν καὶ γονέας τήν τε ἀλλήλων φιλίαν μὴ περὶ σμικροῦ ποιησομένοις. καὶ οἶμαί γʼ, ἔφη, ὀρθῶς ἡμῖν φαίνεσθαι. τί δὲ δὴ εἰ μέλλουσιν εἶναι ἀνδρεῖοι;
"Concerning the gods, then," I said, "such are the things, as it seems, that must be heard and must not be heard from childhood by those who will honor the gods and their parents, and who will not value their friendship with one another lightly." "And I think," he said, "our view appears correct." "What then if they are to be courageous?
ἆρα οὐ ταῦτά τε λεκτέον καὶ οἷα αὐτοὺς ποιῆσαι ἥκιστα τὸν θάνατον δεδιέναι; ἢ ἡγῇ τινά ποτʼ ἂν γενέσθαι ἀνδρεῖον ἔχοντα ἐν αὑτῷ τοῦτο τὸ δεῖμα; μὰ Δία, ἦ δʼ ὅς, οὐκ ἔγωγε.
Must not these things be said, and also such things as will make them fear death least of all?" "Or do you think anyone would ever become courageous while having this fear in himself?" "By Zeus," he said, "not I." "What then?
τί δέ; τἀν Ἅιδου ἡγούμενον εἶναί τε καὶ δεινὰ εἶναι οἴει τινὰ θανάτου ἀδεῆ ἔσεσθαι καὶ ἐν ταῖς μάχαις αἱρήσεσθαι πρὸ ἥττης τε καὶ δουλείας θάνατον; οὐδαμῶς. δεῖ δή, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἡμᾶς ἐπιστατεῖν καὶ περὶ τούτων τῶν μύθων τοῖς ἐπιχειροῦσιν λέγειν, καὶ δεῖσθαι μὴ λοιδορεῖν ἁπλῶς οὕτως τὰ ἐν Ἅιδου ἀλλὰ μᾶλλον ἐπαινεῖν, ὡς οὔτε ἀληθῆ ἂν λέγοντας οὔτε ὠφέλιμα τοῖς μέλλουσιν μαχίμοις ἔσεσθαι. δεῖ μέντοι, ἔφη.
Do you think that someone who believes the things in Hades exist and are terrible will be free of fear of death, and in battles will choose death before defeat and slavery?" "In no way." "It is necessary then, as it seems, for us to supervise those who attempt to tell these myths as well, and to ask them not to slander the things in Hades in this simple way, but rather to praise them, since they say things that are neither true nor useful to those who are to be warriors." "It is indeed necessary," he said.
ἐξαλείψομεν ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀπὸ τοῦδε τοῦ ἔπους ἀρξάμενοι πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα—
"
βουλοίμην κʼ ἐπάρουρος ἐὼν θητευέμεν ἄλλῳ
ἀνδρὶ παρʼ ἀκλήρῳ, ᾧ μὴ βίοτος πολὺς εἴη
ἢ πᾶσιν νεκύεσσι καταφθιμένοισιν ἀνάσσειν
"
καὶ τὸ—
"
οἰκία δὲ θνητοῖσι καὶ ἀθανάτοισι φανείη
σμερδαλέʼ, εὐρώεντα, τά τε στυγέουσι θεοί περ
"
καὶ—
"
ὢ πόποι, ἦ ῥά τις ἔστι καὶ εἰν Ἀΐδαο δόμοισιν
ψυχὴ καὶ εἴδωλον, ἀτὰρ φρένες οὐκ ἔνι πάμπαν
"
καὶ τὸ—
"
οἴῳ πεπνῦσθαι, ταὶ δὲ σκιαὶ ἀΐσσουσι
"
καὶ—
"
ψυχὴ δʼ ἐκ ῥεθέων πταμένη Ἄϊδόσδε βεβήκει,
ὃν πότμον γοόωσα, λιποῦσʼ ἀνδροτῆτα καὶ ἥβην
" §3.387καὶ τὸ—
"
ψυχὴ δὲ κατὰ χθονός, ἠΰτε καπνός,
ᾤχετο τετριγυῖα
"
καὶ—
"
ὡς δʼ ὅτε νυκτερίδες μυχῷ ἄντρου θεσπεσίοιο
τρίζουσαι ποτέονται, ἐπεί κέ τις ἀποπέσῃσιν
ὁρμαθοῦ ἐκ πέτρης, ἀνά τʼ ἀλλήλῃσιν ἔχονται,
ὣς αἳ τετριγυῖαι ἅμʼ ᾔεσαν.
"We shall erase, then," I said, "beginning with this verse, all such things— "βουλοίμην κ' ἐπάρουρος ἐὼν θητευέμεν ἄλλῳ ἀνδρὶ παρ' ἀκλήρῳ, ᾧ μὴ βίοτος πολὺς εἴη ἢ πᾶσιν νεκύεσσι καταφθιμένοισιν ἀνάσσειν "and this— "οἰκία δὲ θνητοῖσι καὶ ἀθανάτοισι φανείη σμερδαλέ', εὐρώεντα, τά τε στυγέουσι θεοί περ "and— "ὢ πόποι, ἦ ῥά τις ἔστι καὶ εἰν Ἀΐδαο δόμοισιν ψυχὴ καὶ εἴδωλον, ἀτὰρ φρένες οὐκ ἔνι πάμπαν "and this— "οἴῳ πεπνῦσθαι, ταὶ δὲ σκιαὶ ἀΐσσουσι "and— "ψυχὴ δ' ἐκ ῥεθέων πταμένη Ἄϊδόσδε βεβήκει, ὃν πότμον γοόωσα, λιποῦσ' ἀνδροτῆτα καὶ ἥβην "and this— "ψυχὴ δὲ κατὰ χθονός, ἠΰτε καπνός, ᾤχετο τετριγυῖα "and— "ὡς δ' ὅτε νυκτερίδες μυχῷ ἄντρου θεσπεσιοιο τρίζουσαι ποτέονται, ἐπεί κέ τις ἀποπέσῃσιν ὁρμαθοῦ ἐκ πέτρης, ἀνά τ' ἀλλήλῃσιν ἔχονται, ὣς αἳ τετριγυῖαι ἅμ' ᾔεσαν.
"
ταῦτα καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πάντα παραιτησόμεθα Ὅμηρόν τε καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ποιητὰς μὴ χαλεπαίνειν ἂν διαγράφωμεν, οὐχ ὡς οὐ ποιητικὰ καὶ ἡδέα τοῖς πολλοῖς ἀκούειν, ἀλλʼ ὅσῳ ποιητικώτερα, τοσούτῳ ἧττον ἀκουστέον παισὶ καὶ ἀνδράσιν οὓς δεῖ ἐλευθέρους εἶναι, δουλείαν θανάτου μᾶλλον πεφοβημένους. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. οὐκοῦν ἔτι καὶ τὰ περὶ ταῦτα ὀνόματα πάντα τὰ δεινά τε καὶ φοβερὰ ἀποβλητέα, Κωκυτούς τε καὶ Στύγας καὶ
νέρους
καὶ
ἀλίβαντας
, καὶ ἄλλα ὅσα τούτου τοῦ τύπου ὀνομαζόμενα φρίττειν δὴ ποιεῖ ὡς
οἴεται
πάντας τοὺς ἀκούοντας.
"All these things and all such things we shall ask Homer and the other poets not to be angry if we strike out, not because they are not poetic and sweet for the many to hear, but because the more poetic they are, the less they should be heard by boys and men who must be free, fearing slavery more than death." "Entirely so." "Therefore, also all the terrible and fearful names concerning these things must be cast out—Cocytus and Styx and underworldlings and corpses, and all the other things named after this pattern that make all who hear them shudder, as he thinks.
καὶ ἴσως εὖ ἔχει πρὸς ἄλλο τι· ἡμεῖς δὲ ὑπὲρ τῶν φυλάκων φοβούμεθα μὴ ἐκ τῆς τοιαύτης φρίκης θερμότεροι καὶ μαλακώτεροι τοῦ δέοντος γένωνται ἡμῖν. καὶ ὀρθῶς γʼ, ἔφη, φοβούμεθα. ἀφαιρετέα ἄρα; ναί. τὸν δὲ ἐναντίον τύπον τούτοις λεκτέον τε καὶ ποιητέον; δῆλα δή. καὶ τοὺς ὀδυρμοὺς ἄρα ἐξαιρήσομεν καὶ τοὺς οἴκτους τοὺς τῶν ἐλλογίμων ἀνδρῶν; ἀνάγκη, ἔφη, εἴπερ καὶ τὰ πρότερα.
And perhaps it is well for some other purpose; but we fear for our guardians lest from such shuddering they become hotter and softer than they should be for us." "And correctly," he said, "we fear." "Should they be removed then?" "Yes." "And the opposite pattern to these must be spoken and composed?" "Clearly so." "Shall we also then remove the lamentations and wailings of famous men?" "Necessarily," he said, "if indeed the former things are." "Consider then," I said, "whether we shall remove them correctly or not.
σκόπει δή, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἰ ὀρθῶς ἐξαιρήσομεν ἢ οὔ. φαμὲν δὲ δὴ ὅτι ὁ ἐπιεικὴς ἀνὴρ τῷ ἐπιεικεῖ, οὗπερ καὶ ἑταῖρός ἐστιν, τὸ τεθνάναι οὐ δεινὸν ἡγήσεται. φαμὲν γάρ. οὐκ ἄρα ὑπέρ γʼ ἐκείνου ὡς δεινόν τι πεπονθότος ὀδύροιτʼ ἄν. οὐ δῆτα. ἀλλὰ μὴν καὶ τόδε λέγομεν, ὡς ὁ τοιοῦτος μάλιστα αὐτὸς αὑτῷ αὐτάρκης πρὸς τὸ εὖ ζῆν καὶ διαφερόντως τῶν ἄλλων ἥκιστα ἑτέρου προσδεῖται. ἀληθῆ, ἔφη.
For we say that the decent man will not think that dying is a terrible thing for a decent man, who is also his companion." "For we do say so." "Then he would not lament for him as if he had suffered something terrible." "Surely not." "But indeed we also say this, that such a man is most of all self-sufficient for himself for living well and, differently from others, least of all in need of another." "True," he said.
ἥκιστα ἄρʼ αὐτῷ δεινὸν στερηθῆναι ὑέος ἢ ἀδελφοῦ ἢ χρημάτων ἢ ἄλλου του τῶν τοιούτων. ἥκιστα μέντοι. ἥκιστʼ ἄρα καὶ ὀδύρεσθαι, φέρειν δὲ ὡς πρᾳότατα, ὅταν τις αὐτὸν τοιαύτη συμφορὰ καταλάβῃ. πολύ γε.
"Least of all then is it terrible for him to be deprived of a son or a brother or money or any other such thing." "Least of all indeed." "Least of all then would he lament, but bear it as gently as possible when any such misfortune overtakes him." "Very much so."