§2.380τὴν δὲ τῶν ὅρκων καὶ σπονδῶν σύγχυσιν, ἣν ὁ Πάνδαρος συνέχεεν, ἐάν τις φῇ διʼ Ἀθηνᾶς τε καὶ Διὸς γεγονέναι, οὐκ ἐπαινεσόμεθα, οὐδὲ θεῶν ἔριν τε καὶ κρίσιν διὰ Θέμιτός τε καὶ Διός, οὐδʼ αὖ, ὡς Αἰσχύλος λέγει, ἐατέον ἀκούειν τοὺς νέους, ὅτι—
"
θεὸς μὲν αἰτίαν φύει βροτοῖς,
ὅταν κακῶσαι δῶμα παμπήδην θέλῃ.
As for the violation of oaths and treaties, which Pandarus committed, if anyone says it came about through Athena and Zeus, we shall not praise it; nor shall we praise the strife and judgment of the gods through Themis and Zeus; nor again, as Aeschylus says, must the young be allowed to hear that: "God implants a cause in mortals, whenever He wills utterly to destroy a house.
"
ἀλλʼ ἐάν τις ποιῇ ἐν οἷς ταῦτα τὰ ἰαμβεῖα ἔνεστιν, τὰ τῆς Νιόβης πάθη, ἢ τὰ Πελοπιδῶν ἢ τὰ Τρωικὰ ἤ τι ἄλλο τῶν τοιούτων, ἢ οὐ θεοῦ ἔργα ἐατέον αὐτὰ λέγειν, ἢ εἰ θεοῦ, ἐξευρετέον αὐτοῖς σχεδὸν ὃν νῦν ἡμεῖς λόγον ζητοῦμεν, καὶ λεκτέον ὡς ὁ μὲν θεὸς δίκαιά τε καὶ ἀγαθὰ ἠργάζετο, οἱ δὲ ὠνίναντο κολαζόμενοι·
"But if anyone composes a poem containing these iambic verses, namely the sufferings of Niobe, or those of the Pelopidae, or the Trojan tales, or any other of such things, we must either not allow them to say these are the works of a god, or if they are of a god, they must discover for them pretty much the explanation we are now seeking, and it must be said that God did what was just and good, and they were benefited by being punished.
ὡς δὲ ἄθλιοι μὲν οἱ δίκην διδόντες, ἦν δὲ δὴ ὁ δρῶν ταῦτα θεός, οὐκ ἐατέον λέγειν τὸν ποιητήν.
But that those who pay the penalty are wretched, and that the one who did these things was God, the poet must not be allowed to say.
ἀλλʼ εἰ μὲν ὅτι ἐδεήθησαν κολάσεως λέγοιεν ὡς ἄθλιοι οἱ κακοί, διδόντες δὲ δίκην ὠφελοῦντο ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ, ἐατέον·
But if they should say that because they were in need of punishment, the bad were wretched, and by paying the penalty they were benefited by God, it must be allowed.
κακῶν δὲ αἴτιον φάναι θεόν τινι γίγνεσθαι ἀγαθὸν ὄντα, διαμαχετέον παντὶ τρόπῳ μήτε τινὰ λέγειν ταῦτα ἐν τῇ αὑτοῦ πόλει, εἰ μέλλει εὐνομήσεσθαι, μήτε τινὰ ἀκούειν, μήτε νεώτερον μήτε πρεσβύτερον, μήτʼ ἐν μέτρῳ μήτε ἄνευ μέτρου μυθολογοῦντα, ὡς οὔτε ὅσια ἂν λεγόμενα εἰ λέγοιτο, οὔτε σύμφορα ἡμῖν οὔτε σύμφωνα αὐτὰ αὑτοῖς. σύμψηφός σοί εἰμι, ἔφη, τούτου τοῦ νόμου, καί μοι ἀρέσκει. οὗτος μὲν τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἷς ἂν εἴη τῶν περὶ θεοὺς νόμων τε καὶ τύπων, ἐν ᾧ δεήσει τούς τε λέγοντας λέγειν καὶ τοὺς ποιοῦντας ποιεῖν, μὴ πάντων αἴτιον τὸν θεὸν ἀλλὰ τῶν ἀγαθῶν. καὶ μάλʼ, ἔφη, ἀπόχρη.
But as for saying that God, being good, becomes the cause of evils to anyone, we must fight against this in every way, so that no one may say these things in his own city, if it is to be well-governed, nor anyone hear them, whether younger or older, whether telling myths in meter or without meter, as things that would be neither holy to be said if they were said, nor beneficial to us, nor consistent with themselves." "I cast my vote with you for this law," he said, "and it pleases me." "This then," I said, "would be one of the laws and patterns concerning the gods, in accordance with which those who speak must speak and those who compose must compose: that God is not the cause of all things, but of the good things." "And indeed it is sufficient," he said.
τί δὲ δὴ ὁ δεύτερος ὅδε;
"What then of this second one?
ἆρα γόητα τὸν θεὸν οἴει εἶναι καὶ οἷον ἐξ ἐπιβουλῆς φαντάζεσθαι ἄλλοτε ἐν ἄλλαις ἰδέαις τοτὲ μὲν αὐτὸν γιγνόμενον, ἀλλάττοντα τὸ αὑτοῦ εἶδος εἰς πολλὰς μορφάς, τοτὲ δὲ ἡμᾶς ἀπατῶντα καὶ ποιοῦντα περὶ αὑτοῦ τοιαῦτα δοκεῖν, ἢ ἁπλοῦν τε εἶναι καὶ πάντων ἥκιστα τῆς ἑαυτοῦ ἰδέας ἐκβαίνειν; οὐκ ἔχω, ἔφη, νῦν γε οὕτως εἰπεῖν.
Do you think God is a sorcerer and capable of appearing, as if by design, at different times in different forms, now becoming Himself and changing His own shape into many forms, and now deceiving us and making us believe such things about Him? Or is He simple and least of all likely to step out of His own form?" "I cannot say so at present," he said.
τί δὲ τόδε;
"What about this?
οὐκ ἀνάγκη, εἴπερ τι ἐξίσταιτο τῆς αὑτοῦ ἰδέας, ἢ αὐτὸ ὑφʼ ἑαυτοῦ μεθίστασθαι ἢ ὑπʼ ἄλλου; ἀνάγκη. οὐκοῦν ὑπὸ μὲν ἄλλου τὰ ἄριστα ἔχοντα ἥκιστα ἀλλοιοῦταί τε καὶ κινεῖται; §2.381οἷον σῶμα ὑπὸ σιτίων τε καὶ ποτῶν καὶ πόνων, καὶ πᾶν φυτὸν ὑπὸ εἱλήσεών τε καὶ ἀνέμων καὶ τῶν τοιούτων παθημάτων, οὐ τὸ ὑγιέστατον καὶ ἰσχυρότατον ἥκιστα ἀλλοιοῦται; πῶς δʼ οὔ; ψυχὴν δὲ οὐ τὴν ἀνδρειοτάτην καὶ φρονιμωτάτην ἥκιστʼ ἄν τι ἔξωθεν πάθος ταράξειέν τε καὶ ἀλλοιώσειεν; ναί. καὶ μήν που καὶ τά γε σύνθετα πάντα σκεύη τε καὶ οἰκοδομήματα καὶ ἀμφιέσματα κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον τὰ εὖ εἰργασμένα καὶ εὖ ἔχοντα ὑπὸ χρόνου τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων παθημάτων ἥκιστα ἀλλοιοῦται. ἔστι δὴ ταῦτα. πᾶν δὴ τὸ καλῶς ἔχον ἢ φύσει ἢ τέχνῃ ἢ ἀμφοτέροις ἐλαχίστην μεταβολὴν ὑπʼ ἄλλου ἐνδέχεται. ἔοικεν. ἀλλὰ μὴν ὁ θεός γε καὶ τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ πάντῃ ἄριστα ἔχει. πῶς δʼ οὔ; ταύτῃ μὲν δὴ ἥκιστα ἂν πολλὰς μορφὰς ἴσχοι ὁ θεός. ἥκιστα δῆτα. ἀλλʼ ἆρα αὐτὸς αὑτὸν μεταβάλλοι ἂν καὶ ἀλλοιοῖ; δῆλον, ἔφη, ὅτι, εἴπερ ἀλλοιοῦται. πότερον οὖν ἐπὶ τὸ βέλτιόν τε καὶ κάλλιον μεταβάλλει ἑαυτὸν ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ χεῖρον καὶ τὸ αἴσχιον ἑαυτοῦ; ἀνάγκη, ἔφη, ἐπὶ τὸ χεῖρον, εἴπερ ἀλλοιοῦται· οὐ γάρ που ἐνδεᾶ γε φήσομεν τὸν θεὸν κάλλους ἢ ἀρετῆς εἶναι. ὀρθότατα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, λέγεις.
Is it not necessary, if anything steps out of its own form, that it is changed either by itself or by another?" "It is necessary." "Then are those things that are in the best state least altered and moved by another?" "For example, a body by food and drink and toil, and every plant by the sun's heat and winds and such experiences, is it not the healthiest and strongest that is least altered?" "How could it not be?" "And as for the soul, would not the bravest and wisest least be disturbed and altered by any external experience?" "Yes." "And indeed, surely all composite things—vessels, buildings, and garments—by the same reasoning, those well made and in good condition are least altered by time and other experiences." "That is so." "Everything then that is in a good condition, either by nature or by art or both, admits the least change by another." "It seems so." "But indeed God and the things of God are in every way in the best state." "How could they not be?" "In this way, then, God would least of all have many forms." "Least of all, indeed." "But would He change and alter Himself?" "Clearly so," he said, "if indeed He is altered." "Does He then change Himself for the better and more beautiful, or for the worse and uglier than Himself?" "Necessarily for the worse," he said, "if indeed He is altered; for surely we shall not say that God is lacking in beauty or virtue." "You speak most rightly," I said.
καὶ οὕτως ἔχοντος δοκεῖ ἄν τίς σοι, ὦ Ἀδείμαντε, ἑκὼν αὑτὸν χείρω ποιεῖν ὁπῃοῦν ἢ θεῶν ἢ ἀνθρώπων; ἀδύνατον, ἔφη.
"And this being so, does it seem to you, Adeimantus, that anyone, whether of gods or men, would willingly make himself worse in any way?" "It is impossible," he said.
ἀδύνατον ἄρα, ἔφην, καὶ θεῷ ἐθέλειν αὑτὸν ἀλλοιοῦν, ἀλλʼ ὡς ἔοικε, κάλλιστος καὶ ἄριστος ὢν εἰς τὸ δυνατὸν ἕκαστος αὐτῶν μένει ἀεὶ ἁπλῶς ἐν τῇ αὑτοῦ μορφῇ. ἅπασα, ἔφη, ἀνάγκη ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
"It is impossible then," I said, "even for a god to wish to alter himself; but as it seems, being most beautiful and best to the limit of possibility, each of them remains always simply in his own form." "Every necessity, indeed, seems so to me," he said.
μηδεὶς ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ ἄριστε, λεγέτω ἡμῖν τῶν ποιητῶν, ὡς—
"
θεοὶ ξείνοισιν ἐοικότες ἀλλοδαποῖσι,
παντοῖοι τελέθοντες, ἐπιστρωφῶσι πόληας· "
μηδὲ Πρωτέως καὶ Θέτιδος καταψευδέσθω μηδείς, μηδʼ ἐν τραγῳδίαις μηδʼ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις ποιήμασιν εἰσαγέτω Ἥραν ἠλλοιωμένην, ὡς ἱέρειαν ἀγείρουσαν—
"
Ἰνάχου Ἀργείου ποταμοῦ παισὶν βιοδώροις· "
καὶ ἄλλα τοιαῦτα πολλὰ μὴ ἡμῖν ψευδέσθων.
"Let no one of the poets, then, my excellent friend," I said, "tell us that: ' Gods, in the likeness of strangers from abroad, appearing in all kinds of shapes, visit the cities; ' nor let anyone lie about Proteus and Thetis, nor introduce Hera in tragedies or other poems altered as a priestess collecting alms for: ' the life-giving children of the Argive river Inachus; ' and let them not tell us many other such falsehoods.
μηδʼ αὖ ὑπὸ τούτων ἀναπειθόμεναι αἱ μητέρες τὰ παιδία ἐκδειματούντων, λέγουσαι τοὺς μύθους κακῶς, ὡς ἄρα θεοί τινες περιέρχονται νύκτωρ πολλοῖς ξένοις καὶ παντοδαποῖς ἰνδαλλόμενοι, ἵνα μὴ ἅμα μὲν εἰς θεοὺς βλασφημῶσιν, ἅμα δὲ τοὺς παῖδας ἀπεργάζωνται δειλοτέρους. μὴ γάρ, ἔφη.
Nor again let mothers, persuaded by these things, frighten their children, telling the myths badly, as though certain gods go about at night, appearing in the likeness of many strangers and of all kinds, so that they may not at once blaspheme against the gods and make their children more cowardly." "Indeed, they must not," he said.
ἀλλʼ ἆρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, αὐτοὶ μὲν οἱ θεοί εἰσιν οἷοι μὴ μεταβάλλειν, ἡμῖν δὲ ποιοῦσιν δοκεῖν σφᾶς παντοδαποὺς φαίνεσθαι, ἐξαπατῶντες καὶ γοητεύοντες; ἴσως, ἔφη.
"But," I said, "are the gods themselves such as not to change, but they make us think they appear in all kinds of shapes, deceiving and bewitching us?" "Perhaps," he said.