§2.374ἔτι δή, ὦ φίλε, μείζονος τῆς πόλεως δεῖ οὔ τι σμικρῷ, ἀλλʼ ὅλῳ στρατοπέδῳ, ὃ ἐξελθὸν ὑπὲρ τῆς οὐσίας ἁπάσης καὶ ὑπὲρ ὧν νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν διαμαχεῖται τοῖς ἐπιοῦσιν. τί δέ; ἦ δʼ ὅς·
"Then, my friend," I said, "the city must be made larger, and by no small amount, but by a whole army, which will go out and fight with the invaders for all our property and for all those things we were just now speaking of." "What?" he said.
αὐτοὶ οὐχ ἱκανοί; οὔκ, εἰ σύ γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἅπαντες ὡμολογήσαμεν καλῶς, ἡνίκα ἐπλάττομεν τὴν πόλιν·
"Are the citizens themselves not sufficient?" "No," I said, "not if you and all of us agreed rightly when we were fashioning the city.
ὡμολογοῦμεν δέ που, εἰ μέμνησαι, ἀδύνατον ἕνα πολλὰς καλῶς ἐργάζεσθαι τέχνας. ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ἔφη.
And we agreed, I believe, if you remember, that it is impossible for one person to practice many arts well." "You speak the truth," he said.
τί οὖν; ἦν δʼ ἐγώ·
"What then?" I said.
ἡ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον ἀγωνία οὐ τεχνικὴ δοκεῖ εἶναι; καὶ μάλα, ἔφη.
"Does not the struggle concerning war seem to be a matter of art?" "Very much so," he said.
ἦ οὖν τι σκυτικῆς δεῖ μᾶλλον κήδεσθαι ἢ πολεμικῆς; οὐδαμῶς. ἀλλʼ ἄρα τὸν μὲν σκυτοτόμον διεκωλύομεν μήτε γεωργὸν ἐπιχειρεῖν εἶναι ἅμα μήτε ὑφάντην μήτε οἰκοδόμον ἀλλὰ σκυτοτόμον, ἵνα δὴ ἡμῖν τὸ τῆς σκυτικῆς ἔργον καλῶς γίγνοιτο, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἑνὶ ἑκάστῳ ὡσαύτως ἓν ἀπεδίδομεν, πρὸς ὃ ἐπεφύκει ἕκαστος καὶ ἐφʼ ᾧ ἔμελλε τῶν ἄλλων σχολὴν ἄγων διὰ βίου αὐτὸ ἐργαζόμενος οὐ παριεὶς τοὺς καιροὺς καλῶς ἀπεργάσεσθαι·
"Should we then care more for the shoemaker's art than for the military art?" "By no means." "But we prohibited the shoemaker from attempting to be at the same time a farmer or a weaver or a builder, instead of remaining a shoemaker, so that the work of shoemaking might be done well for us; and to each of the others likewise we assigned one task, for which each was naturally fitted, and at which he was to work throughout his life, keeping free from other pursuits, and not letting the opportunities slip, so that he might perform it well.
τὰ δὲ δὴ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον πότερον οὐ περὶ πλείστου ἐστὶν εὖ ἀπεργασθέντα;
But is it not of the greatest importance that the affairs of war should be well performed?
ἢ οὕτω ῥᾴδιον, ὥστε καὶ γεωργῶν τις ἅμα πολεμικὸς ἔσται καὶ σκυτοτομῶν καὶ ἄλλην τέχνην ἡντινοῦν ἐργαζόμενος, πεττευτικὸς δὲ ἢ κυβευτικὸς ἱκανῶς οὐδʼ ἂν εἷς γένοιτο μὴ αὐτὸ τοῦτο ἐκ παιδὸς ἐπιτηδεύων, ἀλλὰ παρέργῳ χρώμενος; καὶ ἀσπίδα μὲν λαβὼν ἤ τι ἄλλο τῶν πολεμικῶν ὅπλων τε καὶ ὀργάνων αὐθημερὸν ὁπλιτικῆς ἤ τινος ἄλλης μάχης τῶν κατὰ πόλεμον ἱκανὸς ἔσται ἀγωνιστής, τῶν δὲ ἄλλων ὀργάνων οὐδὲν οὐδένα δημιουργὸν οὐδὲ ἀθλητὴν ληφθὲν ποιήσει, οὐδʼ ἔσται χρήσιμον τῷ μήτε τὴν ἐπιστήμην ἑκάστου λαβόντι μήτε τὴν μελέτην ἱκανὴν παρασχομένῳ; πολλοῦ γὰρ ἄν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, τὰ ὄργανα ἦν ἄξια.
Or is it so easy that a farmer can at the same time be a warrior, and a shoemaker, and practice any other art whatsoever, while no one could become a sufficiently good player of draughts or dice who did not practice this very thing from childhood, but used it as a mere pastime?" "And will a man, by taking up a shield or any other weapon and instrument of war, on that very day be a sufficient combatant in heavy-armed fight or any other fight in war, whereas no other tool will make anyone a craftsman or an athlete by merely being taken up, nor will it be of any use to one who has neither acquired the knowledge of each nor provided sufficient practice?" "The tools would indeed be worth much," he said.
οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅσῳ μέγιστον τὸ τῶν φυλάκων ἔργον, τοσούτῳ σχολῆς τε τῶν ἄλλων πλείστης ἂν εἴη καὶ αὖ τέχνης τε καὶ ἐπιμελείας μεγίστης δεόμενον. οἶμαι ἔγωγε, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
"Then," I said, "the greater the work of the guardians, the more it would require the greatest leisure from other things, and again, the greatest art and attention." "I think so," he said.
ἆρʼ οὖν οὐ καὶ φύσεως ἐπιτηδείας εἰς αὐτὸ τὸ ἐπιτήδευμα; πῶς δʼ οὔ; ἡμέτερον δὴ ἔργον ἂν εἴη, ὡς ἔοικεν, εἴπερ οἷοί τʼ ἐσμέν, ἐκλέξασθαι τίνες τε καὶ ποῖαι φύσεις ἐπιτήδειαι εἰς πόλεως φυλακήν. ἡμέτερον μέντοι. μὰ Δία, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὐκ ἄρα φαῦλον πρᾶγμα ἠράμεθα·
"Then does it not also require a nature suited for this very pursuit?" "Of course." "Then it seems it would be our task, if we are able, to select who and what kind of natures are suited for the guardianship of the city." "Our task indeed." "By Zeus," I said, "we have undertaken no light matter!
ὅμως δὲ οὐκ ἀποδειλιατέον, ὅσον γʼ ἂν δύναμις παρείκῃ. §2.375οὐ γὰρ οὖν, ἔφη.
Nevertheless, we must not shrink, as far as our power allows." "We must not," he said.
οἴει οὖν τι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, διαφέρειν φύσιν γενναίου σκύλακος εἰς φυλακὴν νεανίσκου εὐγενοῦς; τὸ ποῖον λέγεις; οἷον ὀξύν τέ που δεῖ αὐτοῖν ἑκάτερον εἶναι πρὸς αἴσθησιν καὶ ἐλαφρὸν πρὸς τὸ αἰσθανόμενον διωκάθειν, καὶ ἰσχυρὸν αὖ, ἐὰν δέῃ ἑλόντα διαμάχεσθαι. δεῖ γὰρ οὖν, ἔφη, πάντων τούτων. καὶ μὴν ἀνδρεῖόν γε, εἴπερ εὖ μαχεῖται. πῶς δʼ οὔ; ἀνδρεῖος δὲ εἶναι ἆρα ἐθελήσει ὁ μὴ θυμοειδὴς εἴτε ἵππος εἴτε κύων ἢ ἄλλο ὁτιοῦν ζῷον;
"Do you think then," I said, "that the nature of a well-bred puppy differs at all, as regards guardianship, from that of a well-born youth?" "What do you mean?" "I mean that each of them must be sharp in perception, and swift to pursue what they perceive, and strong again, if they must fight it out after catching it." "Yes, indeed," he said, "all these are necessary." "And surely he must be brave, if he is to fight well." "Of course." "But will anyone be willing to be brave who is not spirited, whether horse or dog or any other animal?
ἢ οὐκ ἐννενόηκας ὡς ἄμαχόν τε καὶ ἀνίκητον θυμός, οὗ παρόντος ψυχὴ πᾶσα πρὸς πάντα ἄφοβός τέ ἐστι καὶ ἀήττητος; ἐννενόηκα. τὰ μὲν τοίνυν τοῦ σώματος οἷον δεῖ τὸν φύλακα εἶναι, δῆλα. ναί. καὶ μὴν καὶ τὰ τῆς ψυχῆς, ὅτι γε θυμοειδῆ. καὶ τοῦτο. πῶς οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Γλαύκων, οὐκ ἄγριοι ἀλλήλοις τε ἔσονται καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις πολίταις, ὄντες τοιοῦτοι τὰς φύσεις; μὰ Δία, ἦ δʼ ὅς, οὐ ῥᾳδίως. ἀλλὰ μέντοι δεῖ γε πρὸς μὲν τοὺς οἰκείους πρᾴους αὐτοὺς εἶναι, πρὸς δὲ τοὺς πολεμίους χαλεπούς· εἰ δὲ μή, οὐ περιμενοῦσιν ἄλλους σφᾶς διολέσαι, ἀλλʼ αὐτοὶ φθήσονται αὐτὸ δράσαντες. ἀληθῆ, ἔφη.
Or have you not noticed how invincible and unconquerable spirit is, in whose presence every soul is fearless and invincible against everything?" "I have noticed it." "Then as for the body, it is clear what the guardian must be like." "Yes." "And as for the soul, that it must at least be spirited." "That too." "How then, Glaucon," I said, "will they not be savage to one another and to the other citizens, being of such natures?" "By Zeus," he said, "not easily." "Yet they must indeed be gentle to their own people, but harsh to their enemies; otherwise, they will not wait for others to destroy them, but will themselves do it first." "True," he said.
τί οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ποιήσομεν;
"What then shall we do?" I said.
πόθεν ἅμα πρᾷον καὶ μεγαλόθυμον ἦθος εὑρήσομεν;
"Where shall we find a character at once gentle and high-spirited?
ἐναντία γάρ που θυμοειδεῖ πρᾳεῖα φύσις. φαίνεται. ἀλλὰ μέντοι τούτων γε ὁποτέρου ἂν στέρηται, φύλαξ ἀγαθὸς οὐ μὴ γένηται· ταῦτα δὲ ἀδυνάτοις ἔοικεν, καὶ οὕτω δὴ συμβαίνει ἀγαθὸν φύλακα ἀδύνατον γενέσθαι. κινδυνεύει, ἔφη.
For a gentle nature is surely opposite to a spirited one." "It seems so." "Yet if a man is deprived of either of these, he can never become a good guardian; but these combinations seem impossible, and so it turns out that a good guardian is impossible." "It seems likely," he said.
καὶ ἐγὼ ἀπορήσας τε καὶ ἐπισκεψάμενος τὰ ἔμπροσθεν, δικαίως γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ φίλε, ἀποροῦμεν· ἧς γὰρ προυθέμεθα εἰκόνος ἀπελείφθημεν. πῶς λέγεις; οὐκ ἐννενοήκαμεν ὅτι εἰσὶν ἄρα φύσεις οἵας ἡμεῖς οὐκ ᾠήθημεν, ἔχουσαι τἀναντία ταῦτα. ποῦ δή; ἴδοι μὲν ἄν τις καὶ ἐν ἄλλοις ζῴοις, οὐ μεντἂν ἥκιστα ἐν ᾧ ἡμεῖς παρεβάλλομεν τῷ φύλακι. οἶσθα γάρ που τῶν γενναίων κυνῶν, ὅτι τοῦτο φύσει αὐτῶν τὸ ἦθος, πρὸς μὲν τοὺς συνήθεις τε καὶ γνωρίμους ὡς οἷόν τε πρᾳοτάτους εἶναι, πρὸς δὲ τοὺς ἀγνῶτας τοὐναντίον. οἶδα μέντοι. τοῦτο μὲν ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, δυνατόν, καὶ οὐ παρὰ φύσιν ζητοῦμεν τοιοῦτον εἶναι τὸν φύλακα. οὐκ ἔοικεν. ἆρʼ οὖν σοι δοκεῖ ἔτι τοῦδε προσδεῖσθαι ὁ φυλακικὸς ἐσόμενος, πρὸς τῷ θυμοειδεῖ ἔτι προσγενέσθαι φιλόσοφος τὴν φύσιν;
And I, being perplexed and looking back over what went before, said, "We are justly perplexed, my friend; for we have fallen away from the image we proposed." "How do you mean?" "We have not noticed that there are indeed natures such as we did not think, possessing these opposite qualities." "Where indeed?" "One might see it in other animals too, but not least in the one to which we compared the guardian." "How so?" "You know, of course, that the character of well-bred dogs is naturally to be as gentle as possible to their familiars and acquaintances, but the opposite to strangers." "I know that." "Then," I said, "this is possible, and we are not seeking something contrary to nature when we look for such a guardian." "It seems not." "Then does it seem to you that the one who is to be a guardian needs still this further quality, in addition to being spirited, to be also philosophical in his nature?"