§370ΣΩ. ἐπεὶ καὶ νῦν ἐννενόηκα σοῦ λέγοντος, ὅτι ἐν τοῖς ἔπεσιν οἷς σὺ ἄρτι ἔλεγες, ἐνδεικνύμενος τὸν Ἀχιλλέα εἰς τὸν Ὀδυσσέα λέγειν ὡς ἀλαζόνα ὄντα, ἄτοπόν μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι, εἰ σὺ ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ὅτι ὁ μὲν Ὀδυσσεὺς οὐδαμοῦ φαίνεται ψευσάμενος, ὁ πολύτροπος, ὁ δὲ Ἀχιλλεὺς πολύτροπός τις φαίνεται κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον· ψεύδεται γοῦν.
SO. Indeed, just now while you were speaking, I noticed that in those verses which you just mentioned, when you pointed out that Achilles spoke to Odysseus as if he were a pretender, it seems strange to me—if you speak the truth—that Odysseus, the wily one, nowhere appears to have lied, whereas Achilles appears to be someone quite wily according to your argument; at any rate, he lies.
προειπὼν γὰρ ταῦτα τὰ ἔπη, ἅπερ καὶ σὺ εἶπες ἄρτι—
"
ἐχθρὸς γάρ μοι κεῖνος ὁμῶς Ἀίδαο πύλῃσιν,
ὅς χʼ ἕτερον μὲν κεύθῃ ἐνὶ φρεσίν, ἄλλο δὲ εἴπῃ,
"
ὀλίγον ὕστερον λέγει ὡς οὔτʼ ἂν ἀναπεισθείη ὑπὸ τοῦ Ὀδυσσέως τε καὶ τοῦ Ἀγαμέμνονος οὔτε μένοι τὸ παράπαν ἐν τῇ Τροίᾳ, ἀλλʼ—
"
αὔριον ἱρὰ Διὶ ῥέξας, φησί, καὶ πᾶσι θεοῖσιν,
νηήσας εὖ νῆας, ἐπὴν ἅλαδε προερύσσω,
ὄψεαι, αἴ κʼ ἐθέλῃσθα καὶ αἴ κέν τοι τὰ μεμήλῃ,
ἦρι μάλʼ Ἑλλήσποντον ἐπʼ ἰχθυόεντα πλεούσας
"
"
νῆας ἐμάς, ἐν δʼ ἄνδρας ἐρεσσέμεναι μεμαῶτας· εἰ δέ κεν εὐπλοΐην δώῃ κλυτὸς Ἐννοσίγαιος,
ἤματί κεν τριτάτῳ Φθίην ἐρίβωλον ἱκοίμην.
For after first saying those verses which you also just quoted: "For hateful to me as the gates of Hades is that man who hides one thing in his heart, and says another," a little later he says that he would neither be persuaded by Odysseus and Agamemnon nor remain at all in Troy, but— "Tomorrow, having offered sacrifices to Zeus," he says, "and all the gods, and having well laden my ships, when I drag them down to the sea, you shall see, if you wish and if these things concern you, my ships sailing very early in the morning over the fish-filled Hellespont, and within them men eager to row.
"
ἔτι δὲ πρότερον τούτων πρὸς τὸν Ἀγαμέμνονα λοιδορούμενος εἶπεν—
"
νῦν δʼ εἶμι Φθίηνδʼ, ἐπεὶ ἦ πολὺ λώϊόν ἐστιν
οἴκαδʼ ἴμεν σὺν νηυσὶ κορωνίσιν, οὐδέ σʼ ὀίω
"
"
ἐνθάδʼ ἄτιμος ἐὼν ἄφενος καὶ πλοῦτον ἀφύξειν. "
ταῦτα εἰπὼν τοτὲ μὲν ἐναντίον τῆς στρατιᾶς ἁπάσης, τοτὲ δὲ πρὸς τοὺς ἑαυτοῦ ἑταίρους, οὐδαμοῦ φαίνεται οὔτε παρασκευασάμενος οὔτʼ ἐπιχειρήσας καθέλκειν τὰς ναῦς ὡς ἀποπλευσούμενος οἴκαδε, ἀλλὰ πάνυ γενναίως ὀλιγωρῶν τοῦ τἀληθῆ λέγειν.
And if the famous Earth-shaker should grant a fair voyage, on the third day I should reach fertile Phthia." And even prior to these, while abusing Agamemnon, he said: "But now I will go to Phthia, since it is indeed much better to go home with my curved ships, nor do I think that I, being dishonored here, will amass for you wealth and riches." Having said these things, at one time before the whole army, and at another time to his own companions, he nowhere appears either to have prepared or attempted to launch the ships as though about to sail home, but rather quite nobly disregarding the speaking of the truth.
ἐγὼ μὲν οὖν, ὦ Ἱππία, καὶ ἐξ ἀρχῆς σε ἠρόμην ἀπορῶν ὁπότερος τούτοιν τοῖν ἀνδροῖν ἀμείνων πεποίηται τῷ ποιητῇ, καὶ ἡγούμενος ἀμφοτέρω ἀρίστω εἶναι καὶ δύσκριτον ὁπότερος ἀμείνων εἴη καὶ περὶ ψεύδους καὶ ἀληθείας καὶ τῆς ἄλλης ἀρετῆς· ἀμφοτέρω γὰρ καὶ κατὰ τοῦτο παραπλησίω ἐστόν.
I, therefore, Hippias, from the very beginning asked you because I was in doubt which of these two men had been made better by the poet, and thinking that both were excellent and that it was difficult to judge which was better, both regarding falsehood and truth and other virtue; for in this respect too they are very similar.
ΙΠ. οὐ γὰρ καλῶς σκοπεῖς, ὦ Σώκρατες.
HIP. For you do not examine it well, Socrates.
ἃ μὲν γὰρ ὁ Ἀχιλλεὺς ψεύδεται, οὐκ ἐξ ἐπιβουλῆς φαίνεται ψευδόμενος ἀλλʼ ἄκων, διὰ τὴν συμφορὰν τὴν τοῦ στρατοπέδου ἀναγκασθεὶς καταμεῖναι καὶ βοηθῆσαι· ἃ δὲ ὁ Ὀδυσσεύς, ἑκών τε καὶ ἐξ ἐπιβουλῆς.
For wherein Achilles lies, he appears to lie not from design but unwillingly, being compelled because of the misfortune of the army to remain and bring help; but wherein Odysseus lies, he does so willingly and from design.
ΣΩ. ἐξαπατᾷς με, ὦ φίλτατε Ἱππία, καὶ αὐτὸς τὸν Ὀδυσσέα μιμῇ.
SO. You are deceiving me, my dearest Hippias, and you yourself are imitating Odysseus.
§371ΙΠ. οὐδαμῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες·
HIP. Not at all, Socrates.
λέγεις δὴ τί καὶ πρὸς τί;
What indeed do you mean, and in regard to what?
ΣΩ. ὅτι οὐκ ἐξ ἐπιβουλῆς φῂς τὸν Ἀχιλλέα ψεύδεσθαι, ὃς ἦν οὕτω γόης καὶ ἐπίβουλος πρὸς τῇ ἀλαζονείᾳ, ὡς πεποίηκεν Ὅμηρος, ὥστε καὶ τοῦ Ὀδυσσέως τοσοῦτον φαίνεται φρονεῖν πλέον πρὸς τὸ ῥᾳδίως λανθάνειν αὐτὸν ἀλαζονευόμενος, ὥστε ἐναντίον αὐτοῦ αὐτὸς ἑαυτῷ ἐτόλμα ἐναντία λέγειν καὶ ἐλάνθανεν τὸν Ὀδυσσέα· οὐδὲν γοῦν φαίνεται εἰπὼν πρὸς αὐτὸν ὡς αἰσθανόμενος αὐτοῦ ψευδομένου ὁ Ὀδυσσεύς.
SO. Because you say that Achilles does not lie from design—he who was such a cheat and schemer in addition to his pretension, as Homer has made him, that he appears to have so much more intellect than Odysseus in easily escaping notice when playing the pretender, that he dared to say opposite things to his own self in his presence, and escaped the notice of Odysseus; at least Odysseus nowhere appears to have said anything to him as though perceiving that he was lying.
ΙΠ. ποῖα δὴ ταῦτα λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες;
HIP. What sort of things are you saying, Socrates?
ΣΩ. οὐκ οἶσθα ὅτι λέγων ὕστερον ἢ ὡς πρὸς τὸν Ὀδυσσέα ἔφη ἅμα τῇ ἠοῖ ἀποπλευσεῖσθαι, πρὸς τὸν Αἴαντα οὐκ αὖ φησιν ἀποπλευσεῖσθαι, ἀλλὰ ἄλλα λέγει;
SO. Do you not know that, although he said later than when he spoke to Odysseus that he would sail away at dawn, to Ajax he says on the contrary that he will not sail away, but says other things?
ΙΠ. ποῦ δή;
HIP. Where indeed?
ΣΩ. ἐν οἷς λέγει—
"
οὐ γὰρ πρὶν πολέμοιο μεδήσομαι αἱματόεντος,
"
"
πρίν γʼ υἱὸν Πριάμοιο δαΐφρονος, Ἕκτορα δῖον,
Μυρμιδόνων ἐπί τε κλισίας καὶ νῆας ἱκέσθαι
κτείνοντʼ Ἀργείους, κατά τε φλέξαι πυρὶ νῆας· ἀμφὶ δέ μιν τῇ ʼμῇ κλισίῃ καὶ νηῒ μελαίνῃ
Ἕκτορα καὶ μεμαῶτα μάχης σχήσεσθαι ὀίω.
SO. In the passage where he says: "For I will not care for bloody war, before the son of wise Priam, noble Hector, comes to the tents and ships of the Myrmidons, slaying the Argives, and burns the ships with fire.
"
σὺ δὴ οὖν, ὦ Ἱππία, πότερον οὕτως ἐπιλήσμονα οἴει εἶναι τὸν τῆς Θέτιδός τε καὶ ὑπὸ τοῦ σοφωτάτου Χείρωνος πεπαιδευμένον, ὥστε ὀλίγον πρότερον λοιδοροῦντα τοὺς ἀλαζόνας τῇ ἐσχάτῃ λοιδορίᾳ αὐτὸν παραχρῆμα πρὸς μὲν τὸν Ὀδυσσέα φάναι ἀποπλευσεῖσθαι, πρὸς δὲ τὸν Αἴαντα μενεῖν, ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐπιβουλεύοντά τε καὶ ἡγούμενον ἀρχαῖον εἶναι τὸν Ὀδυσσέα καὶ αὐτοῦ αὐτῷ τούτῳ τῷ τεχνάζειν τε καὶ ψεύδεσθαι περιέσεσθαι;
But around my tent and black ship, I think Hector, even though eager for battle, will be held back." Do you then, Hippias, think that the son of Thetis, who was educated by the wisest Chiron, was so forgetful that, after abusing pretenders just a little before with the extreme abuse, he himself immediately said to Odysseus that he would sail away, but to Ajax that he would remain, and that he did not do so from design, thinking that Odysseus was simple-minded and that he would surpass him by this very artifice and lying?
ΙΠ. οὔκουν ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες·
HIP.
ἀλλὰ καὶ αὐτὰ ταῦτα ὑπὸ εὐνοίας ἀναπεισθεὶς πρὸς τὸν Αἴαντα ἄλλα εἶπεν ἢ πρὸς τὸν Ὀδυσσέα· ὁ δὲ Ὀδυσσεὺς ἅ τε ἀληθῆ λέγει, ἐπιβουλεύσας ἀεὶ λέγει, καὶ ὅσα ψεύδεται, ὡσαύτως.
It does not seem so to me, at least, Socrates; but even these very things he said differently to Ajax than to Odysseus because he was persuaded by goodwill.
ΣΩ. ἀμείνων ἄρʼ ἐστίν, ὡς ἔοικεν, ὁ Ὀδυσσεὺς Ἀχιλλέως.
But Odysseus, both when he speaks the truth, always speaks from design, and whenever he lies, likewise.
ΙΠ. ἥκιστά γε δήπου, ὦ Σώκρατες.
SO. Then Odysseus is better, as it seems, than Achilles. HIP. Least of all, surely, Socrates.
ΣΩ. τί δέ;
SO. Why?
οὐκ ἄρτι ἐφάνησαν οἱ ἑκόντες ψευδόμενοι βελτίους ἢ οἱ ἄκοντες;
Did it not just now appear that those who lie willingly are better than those who do so unwillingly?