§74ΣΩ. τίνας ταύτας;
SOC. Which ones are these?
εἰπέ.
Tell me.
οἷον καὶ ἐγώ σοι εἴποιμι ἂν καὶ ἄλλα σχήματα, εἴ με κελεύοις· καὶ σὺ οὖν ἐμοὶ εἰπὲ ἄλλας ἀρετάς.
Just as I too could tell you other shapes, if you should bid me; so you too tell me other virtues.
ΜΕΝ. ἡ ἀνδρεία τοίνυν ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ ἀρετὴ εἶναι καὶ σωφροσύνη καὶ σοφία καὶ μεγαλοπρέπεια καὶ ἄλλαι πάμπολλαι.
MEN. Courage, then, seems to me to be a virtue, and temperance, and wisdom, and magnanimity, and very many others.
ΣΩ. πάλιν, ὦ Μένων, ταὐτὸν πεπόνθαμεν·
SOC.
πολλὰς αὖ ηὑρήκαμεν ἀρετὰς μίαν ζητοῦντες, ἄλλον τρόπον ἢ νυνδή· τὴν δὲ μίαν, ἣ διὰ πάντων τούτων ἐστίν, οὐ δυνάμεθα ἀνευρεῖν.
Again, Meno, we have experienced the same thing; we have found many virtues again while seeking one, in another way than just now; but the one, which is through all of these, we are not able to find out.
ΜΕΝ. οὐ γὰρ δύναμαί πω, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὡς σὺ ζητεῖς, μίαν ἀρετὴν λαβεῖν κατὰ πάντων, ὥσπερ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις.
MEN. For I am not yet able, Socrates, to grasp one virtue down through all, as you seek, as in the other cases.
ΣΩ. εἰκότως γε·
SOC.
ἀλλʼ ἐγὼ προθυμήσομαι, ἐὰν οἷός τʼ ὦ, ἡμᾶς προβιβάσαι. μανθάνεις γάρ που ὅτι οὑτωσὶ ἔχει περὶ παντός·
Reasonably enough; but I will make an effort, if I am able, to move us forward.
εἴ τίς σε ἀνέροιτο τοῦτο ὃ νυνδὴ ἐγὼ ἔλεγον,
τί ἐστιν σχῆμα, ὦ Μένων; εἰ αὐτῷ εἶπες ὅτι στρογγυλότης, εἴ σοι εἶπεν ἅπερ ἐγώ,
πότερον σχῆμα ἡ στρογγυλότης ἐστὶν ἢ σχῆμά τι;
For you understand, I suppose, that this is the case about everything: if someone asked you this which I was just saying: 'What is shape, Meno?' if you said to him that it is roundness, if he said to you just what I did: 'Is roundness shape, or a certain shape?' you would surely say that it is a certain shape.
εἶπες δήπου ἂν ὅτι σχῆμά τι.
MEN.
ΜΕΝ. πάνυ γε.
Certainly.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν διὰ ταῦτα, ὅτι καὶ ἄλλα ἔστιν σχήματα;
SOC. Therefore for this reason, because there are also other shapes?
ΜΕΝ. ναί.
MEN. Yes.
ΣΩ. καὶ εἴ γε προσανηρώτα σε ὁποῖα, ἔλεγες ἄν;
SOC. And if he further asked you of what sort they are, would you tell him?
ΜΕΝ. ἔγωγε.
MEN. I would.
ΣΩ. καὶ αὖ εἰ περὶ χρώματος ὡσαύτως ἀνήρετο ὅτι ἐστίν, καὶ εἰπόντος σου ὅτι τὸ λευκόν, μετὰ ταῦτα ὑπέλαβεν ὁ ἐρωτῶν· πότερον τὸ λευκὸν χρῶμά ἐστιν ἢ χρῶμά τι;
SOC.
εἶπες ἂν ὅτι χρῶμά τι, διότι καὶ ἄλλα τυγχάνει ὄντα;
And again, if he asked in the same way about color, what it is, and you having said that it is white, the questioner took up after this: 'Is white color, or a certain color?' would you say that it is a certain color, because there also happen to be others?
ΜΕΝ. ἔγωγε.
MEN. I would.
ΣΩ. καὶ εἴ γέ σε ἐκέλευε λέγειν ἄλλα χρώματα, ἔλεγες ἂν ἄλλα, ἃ οὐδὲν ἧττον τυγχάνει ὄντα χρώματα τοῦ λευκοῦ;
SOC. And if he bade you tell other colors, would you tell others, which happen to be colors no less than white?
ΜΕΝ. ναί.
MEN. Yes.
ΣΩ. εἰ οὖν ὥσπερ ἐγὼ μετῄει τὸν λόγον, καὶ ἔλεγεν ὅτι
ἀεὶ εἰς πολλὰ ἀφικνούμεθα, ἀλλὰ μή μοι οὕτως, ἀλλʼ ἐπειδὴ τὰ πολλὰ ταῦτα ἑνί τινι προσαγορεύεις ὀνόματι, καὶ φῂς οὐδὲν αὐτῶν ὅτι οὐ σχῆμα εἶναι, καὶ ταῦτα καὶ ἐναντία ὄντα ἀλλήλοις, ὅτι ἐστὶν τοῦτο ὃ οὐδὲν ἧττον κατέχει τὸ στρογγύλον ἢ τὸ εὐθύ, ὃ δὴ ὀνομάζεις σχῆμα καὶ οὐδὲν μᾶλλον φῂς τὸ στρογγύλον σχῆμα εἶναι ἢ τὸ εὐθύ; ἢ οὐχ οὕτω λέγεις;
SOC. If then he pursued the argument just as I did, and said: 'We are always arriving at many; but do not answer me in this way, but since you call these many by some one name, and say that not one of them is not a shape, and that too though they are opposite to one another, what is this which encompasses the round no less than the straight, which very thing you name shape, and you say that the round is no more shape than the straight?' Or do you not say so?
ΜΕΝ. ἔγωγε.
MEN. I do.
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν, ὅταν οὕτω λέγῃς, τότε οὐδὲν μᾶλλον φῂς τὸ στρογγύλον εἶναι στρογγύλον ἢ εὐθύ, οὐδὲ τὸ εὐθὺ εὐθὺ ἢ στρογγύλον;
SOC. Then, when you speak in this way, do you say that the round is no more round than straight, nor the straight straight than round?
ΜΕΝ. οὐ δήπου, ὦ Σώκρατες.
MEN. Surely not, Socrates.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν σχῆμά γε οὐδὲν μᾶλλον φῂς εἶναι τὸ στρογγύλον τοῦ εὐθέος, οὐδὲ τὸ ἕτερον τοῦ ἑτέρου.
SOC. But indeed you do say that the round is no more shape than the straight, nor the one than the other.
ΜΕΝ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
MEN. You speak the truth.