§517ΣΩ. ἀληθεῖς ἄρα, ὡς ἔοικεν, οἱ ἔμπροσθεν λόγοι ἦσαν, ὅτι οὐδένα ἡμεῖς ἴσμεν ἄνδρα ἀγαθὸν γεγονότα τὰ πολιτικὰ ἐν τῇδε τῇ πόλει.
SOCRATES: Then, as it seems, our former arguments were true, that we know of no man who has proved to be good in political affairs in this city of ours.
σὺ δὲ ὡμολόγεις τῶν γε νῦν οὐδένα, τῶν μέντοι ἔμπροσθεν, καὶ προείλου τούτους τοὺς ἄνδρας· οὗτοι δὲ ἀνεφάνησαν ἐξ ἴσου τοῖς νῦν ὄντες, ὥστε, εἰ οὗτοι ῥήτορες ἦσαν, οὔτε τῇ ἀληθινῇ ῥητορικῇ ἐχρῶντο—οὐ γὰρ ἂν ἐξέπεσον—οὔτε τῇ κολακικῇ.
And you were agreeing that none of those of the present day is such, but you chose those of former times; yet these have turned out to be just the same as those of the present, so that, if they were rhetoricians, they used neither the true rhetoric—for then they would not have fallen out—nor the flattering sort.
ΚΑΛ. ἀλλὰ μέντοι πολλοῦ γε δεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες, μή ποτέ τις τῶν νῦν ἔργα τοιαῦτα ἐργάσηται οἷα τούτων ὅστις βούλει εἴργασται.
CALLICLES: But indeed, Socrates, it is far from being the case that any of those now living could ever perform such deeds as any one of those men you please has performed.
ΣΩ. ὦ δαιμόνιε, οὐδʼ ἐγὼ ψέγω τούτους ὥς γε διακόνους εἶναι πόλεως, ἀλλά μοι δοκοῦσι τῶν γε νῦν διακονικώτεροι γεγονέναι καὶ μᾶλλον οἷοί τε ἐκπορίζειν τῇ πόλει ὧν ἐπεθύμει.
SOCRATES: My admirable friend, neither do I blame them as being servants of the city; rather, they seem to me to have been more serviceable than those of the present day, and more able to procure for the city what it desired.
ἀλλὰ γὰρ μεταβιβάζειν τὰς ἐπιθυμίας καὶ μὴ ἐπιτρέπειν, πείθοντες καὶ βιαζόμενοι ἐπὶ τοῦτο ὅθεν ἔμελλον ἀμείνους ἔσεσθαι οἱ πολῖται, ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν οὐδὲν τούτων διέφερον ἐκεῖνοι· ὅπερ μόνον ἔργον ἐστὶν ἀγαθοῦ πολίτου.
But in changing the direction of their desires and not giving way to them, persuading and forcing them to that by which the citizens were likely to become better, they differed, so to speak, not at all from these present men; and yet this alone is the work of a good citizen.
ναῦς δὲ καὶ τείχη καὶ νεώρια καὶ ἄλλα πολλὰ τοιαῦτα καὶ ἐγώ σοι ὁμολογῶ δεινοτέρους εἶναι ἐκείνους τούτων ἐκπορίζειν.
And as for procuring ships and walls and dockyards and many other such things, I too agree with you that they were cleverer than these men in providing them.
πρᾶγμα οὖν γελοῖον ποιοῦμεν ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ ἐν τοῖς λόγοις· ἐν παντὶ γὰρ τῷ χρόνῳ ὃν διαλεγόμεθα οὐδὲν παυόμεθα εἰς τὸ αὐτὸ ἀεὶ περιφερόμενοι καὶ ἀγνοοῦντες ἀλλήλων ὅτι λέγομεν.
So we are doing a ridiculous thing, both you and I, in our discussion; for during the whole time we have been conversing, we never cease being carried round and round to the same point, and misunderstanding what each other is saying.
ἐγὼ γοῦν σε πολλάκις οἶμαι ὡμολογηκέναι καὶ ἐγνωκέναι ὡς ἄρα διττὴ αὕτη τις ἡ πραγματεία ἔστιν καὶ περὶ τὸ σῶμα καὶ περὶ τὴν ψυχήν, καὶ ἡ μὲν ἑτέρα διακονική ἐστιν, ᾗ δυνατὸν εἶναι ἐκπορίζειν, ἐὰν μὲν πεινῇ τὰ σώματα ἡμῶν, σιτία, ἐὰν δὲ διψῇ, ποτά, ἐὰν δὲ ῥιγῷ, ἱμάτια, στρώματα, ὑποδήματα, ἄλλʼ ὧν ἔρχεται σώματα εἰς ἐπιθυμίαν· καὶ ἐξεπίτηδές σοι διὰ τῶν αὐτῶν εἰκόνων λέγω, ἵνα ῥᾷον καταμάθῃς.
I, at any rate, think you have many times agreed and recognized that this business is indeed twofold, both regarding the body and regarding the soul, and that one of the two is of a serving nature, by which it is possible to procure, if our bodies are hungry, food; if thirsty, drink; if cold, clothing, bedding, shoes, and other things which bodies come to desire; and I purposely speak to you through the same illustrations, so that you may understand more easily.
τούτων γὰρ ποριστικὸν εἶναι ἢ κάπηλον ὄντα ἢ ἔμπορον ἢ δημιουργόν του αὐτῶν τούτων, σιτοποιὸν ἢ ὀψοποιὸν ἢ ὑφάντην ἢ σκυτοτόμον ἢ σκυτοδεψόν, οὐδὲν θαυμαστόν ἐστιν ὄντα τοιοῦτον δόξαι καὶ αὑτῷ καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις θεραπευτὴν εἶναι σώματος, παντὶ τῷ μὴ εἰδότι ὅτι ἔστιν τις παρὰ ταύτας ἁπάσας τέχνη γυμναστική τε καὶ ἰατρική, ἣ δὴ τῷ ὄντι γε ἐστὶν σώματος θεραπεία, ἥνπερ καὶ προσήκει τούτων ἄρχειν πασῶν τῶν τεχνῶν καὶ χρῆσθαι τοῖς τούτων ἔργοις διὰ τὸ εἰδέναι ὅτι χρηστὸν καὶ πονηρὸν τῶν σιτίων ἢ ποτῶν ἐστιν εἰς ἀρετὴν σώματος, τὰς δʼ ἄλλας πάσας ταύτας ἀγνοεῖν·
For that a person who is a provider of these things, whether he be a retail dealer or a merchant, or a maker of any of these very things—a baker, a cook, a weaver, a shoemaker, or a tanner—should, being such, seem both to himself and to others to be a caretaker of the body, is not at all surprising, to anyone who does not know that there is, besides all these, a certain art of gymnastics and medicine, which is indeed in truth the care of the body, and which it is fitting should rule over all these arts and use their works, because it knows what is good and bad in food or drink for the excellence of the body, while all these other arts are ignorant of it;