§507ΣΩ. ἡ δέ γε κοσμία σώφρων; —πολλὴ ἀνάγκη. —ἡ ἄρα σώφρων ψυχὴ ἀγαθή.
SOCRATES: And is the orderly soul temperate? — Of great necessity. — Then the temperate soul is good.
ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκ ἔχω παρὰ ταῦτα ἄλλα φάναι, ὦ φίλε Καλλίκλεις· σὺ δʼ εἰ ἔχεις, δίδασκε.
For my part, I have nothing else to say against this, my dear Callicles; but if you have, teach me.
ΚΑΛ. λέγʼ, ὠγαθέ.
CALLICLES: Speak on, good man.
ΣΩ. λέγω δὴ ὅτι, εἰ ἡ σώφρων ἀγαθή ἐστιν, ἡ τοὐναντίον τῇ σώφρονι πεπονθυῖα κακή ἐστιν· ἦν δὲ αὕτη ἡ ἄφρων τε καὶ ἀκόλαστος. —πάνυ γε. —καὶ μὴν ὅ γε σώφρων τὰ προσήκοντα πράττοι ἂν καὶ περὶ θεοὺς καὶ περὶ ἀνθρώπους· οὐ γὰρ ἂν σωφρονοῖ τὰ μὴ προσήκοντα πράττων; — ἀνάγκη ταῦτʼ εἶναι οὕτω. —καὶ μὴν περὶ μὲν ἀνθρώπους τὰ προσήκοντα πράττων δίκαιʼ ἂν πράττοι, περὶ δὲ θεοὺς ὅσια· τὸν δὲ τὰ δίκαια καὶ ὅσια πράττοντα ἀνάγκη δίκαιον καὶ ὅσιον εἶναι. —ἔστι ταῦτα. —καὶ μὲν δὴ καὶ ἀνδρεῖόν γε ἀνάγκη· οὐ γὰρ δὴ σώφρονος ἀνδρός ἐστιν οὔτε διώκειν οὔτε φεύγειν ἃ μὴ προσήκει, ἀλλʼ ἃ δεῖ καὶ πράγματα καὶ ἀνθρώπους καὶ ἡδονὰς καὶ λύπας φεύγειν καὶ διώκειν, καὶ ὑπομένοντα καρτερεῖν ὅπου δεῖ·
SOCRATES: I say then that, if the temperate soul is good, the one that has experienced the opposite of the temperate is bad; and this was the foolish and undisciplined one. — Quite so. — And indeed, the temperate man would do what is fitting both regarding gods and regarding human beings; for he would not be temperate if he did what was not fitting. — It is necessary that these things be so. — And indeed, doing what is fitting regarding human beings, he would do what is just, and regarding gods, what is pious; and it is necessary that the one who does what is just and pious be just and pious. — That is so. — And indeed, he must also be courageous; for it is not the part of a temperate man to pursue or to flee what is not fitting, but to flee and pursue what one ought to—both things, human beings, pleasures, and pains—and to endure and hold out where one ought.
ὥστε πολλὴ ἀνάγκη, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, τὸν σώφρονα, ὥσπερ διήλθομεν, δίκαιον ὄντα καὶ ἀνδρεῖον καὶ ὅσιον ἀγαθὸν ἄνδρα εἶναι τελέως, τὸν δὲ ἀγαθὸν εὖ τε καὶ καλῶς πράττειν ἃ ἂν πράττῃ, τὸν δʼ εὖ πράττοντα μακάριόν τε καὶ εὐδαίμονα εἶναι, τὸν δὲ πονηρὸν καὶ κακῶς πράττοντα ἄθλιον· οὗτος δʼ ἂν εἴη ὁ ἐναντίως ἔχων τῷ σώφρονι, ὁ ἀκόλαστος, ὃν σὺ ἐπῄνεις.
So that of great necessity, Callicles, the temperate man, being just, courageous, and pious, as we have gone through, must be a completely good man, and the good man must do well and beautifully whatever he does, and the one who does well must be blessed and happy, while the wicked man who does badly must be miserable; and this would be the one who is in the opposite state to the temperate man, the undisciplined one, whom you were praising.
ἐγὼ μὲν οὖν ταῦτα οὕτω τίθεμαι καί φημι ταῦτα ἀληθῆ εἶναι· εἰ δὲ ἔστιν ἀληθῆ, τὸν βουλόμενον, ὡς ἔοικεν, εὐδαίμονα εἶναι σωφροσύνην μὲν διωκτέον καὶ ἀσκητέον, ἀκολασίαν δὲ φευκτέον ὡς ἔχει ποδῶν ἕκαστος ἡμῶν, καὶ παρασκευαστέον μάλιστα μὲν μηδὲν δεῖσθαι τοῦ κολάζεσθαι, ἐὰν δὲ δεηθῇ ἢ αὐτὸς ἢ ἄλλος τις τῶν οἰκείων, ἢ ἰδιώτης ἢ πόλις, ἐπιθετέον δίκην καὶ κολαστέον, εἰ μέλλει εὐδαίμων εἶναι.
I, then, set down these things in this way and say that they are true; and if they are true, the one who wishes, as it seems, to be happy must pursue and practice temperance, and flee from undisciplined indulgence as fast as each of us can run, and must prepare himself especially not to need to be disciplined, but if he himself or anyone else of his own people needs it, whether a private citizen or a city, justice must be applied and they must be disciplined, if they are to be happy.
οὗτος ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ ὁ σκοπὸς εἶναι πρὸς ὃν βλέποντα δεῖ ζῆν, καὶ πάντα εἰς τοῦτο τὰ αὑτοῦ συντείνοντα καὶ τὰ τῆς πόλεως, ὅπως δικαιοσύνη παρέσται καὶ σωφροσύνη τῷ μακαρίῳ μέλλοντι ἔσεσθαι, οὕτω πράττειν, οὐκ ἐπιθυμίας ἐῶντα ἀκολάστους εἶναι καὶ ταύτας ἐπιχειροῦντα πληροῦν, ἀνήνυτον κακόν, λῃστοῦ βίον ζῶντα.
This seems to me to be the target toward which one ought to look and live, and to direct all of one's own affairs and those of the city to this end, so that justice and temperance will be present to the one who is to be happy, to act in this way, not allowing desires to be undisciplined and attempting to satisfy them—an endless evil, living the life of a robber.
οὔτε γὰρ ἂν ἄλλῳ ἀνθρώπῳ προσφιλὴς ἂν εἴη ὁ τοιοῦτος οὔτε θεῷ· κοινωνεῖν γὰρ ἀδύνατος, ὅτῳ δὲ μὴ ἔνι κοινωνία, φιλία οὐκ ἂν εἴη.
For such a person would be dear neither to any other human being nor to God; for he is incapable of sharing, and for whomsoever there is no sharing, there can be no friendship.
§508ΣΩ. φασὶ δʼ οἱ σοφοί, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, καὶ οὐρανὸν καὶ γῆν καὶ θεοὺς καὶ ἀνθρώπους τὴν κοινωνίαν συνέχειν καὶ φιλίαν καὶ κοσμιότητα καὶ σωφροσύνην καὶ δικαιότητα, καὶ τὸ ὅλον τοῦτο διὰ ταῦτα κόσμον καλοῦσιν, ὦ ἑταῖρε, οὐκ ἀκοσμίαν οὐδὲ ἀκολασίαν.
SOCRATES: And the wise say, Callicles, that heaven and earth, gods and human beings, are held together by sharing, friendship, orderliness, temperance, and justice, and for this reason, my friend, they call this whole universe "cosmos" (order), and not disorder or undisciplined indulgence.
σὺ δέ μοι δοκεῖς οὐ προσέχειν τὸν νοῦν τούτοις, καὶ ταῦτα σοφὸς ὤν, ἀλλὰ λέληθέν σε ὅτι ἡ ἰσότης ἡ γεωμετρικὴ καὶ ἐν θεοῖς καὶ ἐν ἀνθρώποις μέγα δύναται, σὺ δὲ πλεονεξίαν οἴει δεῖν ἀσκεῖν· γεωμετρίας γὰρ ἀμελεῖς.
But you seem to me not to pay attention to these things, and that too though you are wise, but it has escaped you that geometric equality has great power both among gods and among human beings, and you think one ought to practice greed; for you neglect geometry.
εἶεν· ἢ ἐξελεγκτέος δὴ οὗτος ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν ἐστιν, ὡς οὐ δικαιοσύνης καὶ σωφροσύνης κτήσει εὐδαίμονες οἱ εὐδαίμονες, κακίας δὲ οἱ ἄθλιοι, ἢ εἰ οὗτος ἀληθής ἐστιν, σκεπτέον τί τὰ συμβαίνοντα.
Well, then; either this argument must be refuted by us, to the effect that the happy are not happy by the possession of justice and temperance, and the miserable are not miserable by vice, or if this is true, we must consider what are the consequences.
τὰ πρόσθεν ἐκεῖνα, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, συμβαίνει πάντα, ἐφʼ οἷς σύ με ἤρου εἰ σπουδάζων λέγοιμι, λέγοντα ὅτι κατηγορητέον εἴη καὶ αὑτοῦ καὶ ὑέος καὶ ἑταίρου, ἐάν τι ἀδικῇ, καὶ τῇ ῥητορικῇ ἐπὶ τοῦτο χρηστέον· καὶ ἃ Πῶλον αἰσχύνῃ ᾤου συγχωρεῖν, ἀληθῆ ἄρα ἦν, τὸ εἶναι τὸ ἀδικεῖν τοῦ ἀδικεῖσθαι ὅσῳπερ αἴσχιον τοσούτῳ κάκιον· καὶ τὸν μέλλοντα ὀρθῶς ῥητορικὸν ἔσεσθαι δίκαιον ἄρα δεῖ εἶναι καὶ ἐπιστήμονα τῶν δικαίων, ὃ αὖ Γοργίαν ἔφη πῶλος διʼ αἰσχύνην ὁμολογῆσαι.
Those former things, Callicles, all follow, about which you asked me if I was speaking in earnest, when I said that one ought to accuse both oneself and one's son and companion if they do any injustice, and that rhetoric must be used for this purpose; and what you thought Polus conceded out of shame was, after all, true: that committing injustice is, by as much as it is baser, by so much worse than suffering it; and that the one who is to be a rhetorician rightly must after all be just and knowledgeable about what is just, which again Polus said Gorgias agreed to out of shame.
τούτων δὲ οὕτως ἐχόντων σκεψώμεθα τί ποτʼ ἐστὶν ἃ σὺ ἐμοὶ ὀνειδίζεις, ἆρα καλῶς λέγεται ἢ οὔ, ὡς ἄρα ἐγὼ οὐχ οἷός τʼ εἰμὶ βοηθῆσαι οὔτε ἐμαυτῷ οὔτε τῶν φίλων οὐδενὶ οὐδὲ τῶν οἰκείων, οὐδʼ ἐκσῶσαι ἐκ τῶν μεγίστων κινδύνων, εἰμὶ δὲ ἐπὶ τῷ βουλομένῳ ὥσπερ οἱ ἄτιμοι τοῦ ἐθέλοντος, ἄντε τύπτειν βούληται, τὸ νεανικὸν δὴ τοῦτο τὸ τοῦ σοῦ λόγου, ἐπὶ κόρρης, ἐάντε χρήματα ἀφαιρεῖσθαι, ἐάντε ἐκβάλλειν ἐκ τῆς πόλεως, ἐάντε, τὸ ἔσχατον, ἀποκτεῖναι· καὶ οὕτω διακεῖσθαι πάντων δὴ αἴσχιστόν ἐστιν, ὡς ὁ σὸς λόγος.
These things being so, let us consider what indeed are the things for which you reproach me, whether they are well said or not: namely, that I am not able to help either myself or any of my friends or relatives, nor to save them from the greatest dangers, but am at the mercy of anyone who wishes, like those who have lost their civic rights, whether he wishes to strike me on the cheek—to use that vigorous expression of your speech—or to take away my property, or to cast me out of the city, or, the ultimate thing, to kill me; and that to be in such a state is of all things the basest, as your speech says.
ὁ δὲ δὴ ἐμὸς ὅστις, πολλάκις μὲν ἤδη εἴρηται, οὐδὲν δὲ κωλύει καὶ ἔτι λέγεσθαι· οὔ φημι, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, τὸ τύπτεσθαι ἐπὶ κόρρης ἀδίκως αἴσχιστον εἶναι, οὐδέ γε τὸ τέμνεσθαι οὔτε τὸ σῶμα τὸ ἐμὸν οὔτε τὸ βαλλάντιον, ἀλλὰ τὸ τύπτειν καὶ ἐμὲ καὶ τὰ ἐμὰ ἀδίκως καὶ τέμνειν καὶ αἴσχιον καὶ κάκιον, καὶ κλέπτειν γε ἅμα καὶ ἀνδραποδίζεσθαι καὶ τοιχωρυχεῖν καὶ συλλήβδην ὁτιοῦν ἀδικεῖν καὶ ἐμὲ καὶ τὰ ἐμὰ τῷ ἀδικοῦντι καὶ κάκιον καὶ αἴσχιον εἶναι ἢ ἐμοὶ τῷ ἀδικουμένῳ.
But as for my own view, which has indeed been stated many times already, nothing prevents it from being said once more: I say, Callicles, that to be struck on the cheek unjustly is not the basest thing, nor indeed to have either my body or my purse cut, but to strike and cut both me and mine unjustly is both baser and worse, and indeed to steal, to enslave, to break into houses, and in short to do any injustice whatsoever to me and mine is both worse and baser for the one committing the injustice than for me who suffer it.