§492ΚΑΛ. πάνυ γε σφόδρα, ὦ Σώκρατες.
CALLICLES: Most certainly, Socrates.
ἐπεὶ πῶς ἂν εὐδαίμων γένοιτο ἄνθρωπος δουλεύων ὁτῳοῦν;
For how could a man be happy if he is a slave to anything?
ἀλλὰ τοῦτʼ ἐστὶν τὸ κατὰ φύσιν καλὸν καὶ δίκαιον, ὃ ἐγώ σοι νῦν παρρησιαζόμενος λέγω, ὅτι δεῖ τὸν ὀρθῶς βιωσόμενον τὰς μὲν ἐπιθυμίας τὰς ἑαυτοῦ ἐᾶν ὡς μεγίστας εἶναι καὶ μὴ κολάζειν, ταύταις δὲ ὡς μεγίσταις οὔσαις ἱκανὸν εἶναι ὑπηρετεῖν διʼ ἀνδρείαν καὶ φρόνησιν, καὶ ἀποπιμπλάναι ὧν ἂν ἀεὶ ἡ ἐπιθυμία γίγνηται.
But this is what is natural noble and just, which I now speak to you with frankness: that he who is to live rightly must allow his desires to be as great as possible and not restrain them, and must be capable of serving them, being as great as they are, through courage and wisdom, and of satisfying whatever the desire may be at any time.
ἀλλὰ τοῦτʼ οἶμαι τοῖς πολλοῖς οὐ δυνατόν· ὅθεν ψέγουσιν τοὺς τοιούτους διʼ αἰσχύνην, ἀποκρυπτόμενοι τὴν αὑτῶν ἀδυναμίαν, καὶ αἰσχρὸν δή φασιν εἶναι τὴν ἀκολασίαν, ὅπερ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἐγὼ ἔλεγον, δουλούμενοι τοὺς βελτίους τὴν φύσιν ἀνθρώπους, καὶ αὐτοὶ οὐ δυνάμενοι ἐκπορίζεσθαι ταῖς ἡδοναῖς πλήρωσιν ἐπαινοῦσιν τὴν σωφροσύνην καὶ τὴν δικαιοσύνην διὰ τὴν αὑτῶν ἀνανδρίαν.
But this, I think, is not possible for the many; hence they blame such people out of shame, concealing their own weakness, and they say that licentiousness is shameful, as I said before, enslaving those who are better by nature; and being themselves unable to procure fulfillment for their pleasures, they praise temperance and justice because of their own lack of manhood.
ἐπεὶ ὅσοις ἐξ ἀρχῆς ὑπῆρξεν ἢ βασιλέων ὑέσιν εἶναι ἢ αὐτοὺς τῇ φύσει ἱκανοὺς ἐκπορίσασθαι ἀρχήν τινα ἢ τυραννίδα ἢ δυναστείαν, τί ἂν τῇ ἀληθείᾳ αἴσχιον καὶ κάκιον εἴη σωφροσύνης καὶ δικαιοσύνης τούτοις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, οἷς ἐξὸν ἀπολαύειν τῶν ἀγαθῶν καὶ μηδενὸς ἐμποδὼν ὄντος, αὐτοὶ ἑαυτοῖς δεσπότην ἐπαγάγοιντο τὸν τῶν πολλῶν ἀνθρώπων νόμον τε καὶ λόγον καὶ ψόγον;
For to those who had from the beginning the advantage of being sons of kings, or who were themselves capable by nature of procuring some rule, tyranny, or power, what in truth could be more shameful and worse than temperance and justice for these men, who, when it is open to them to enjoy good things and nothing is in their way, should themselves introduce over themselves as master the law, the speech, and the censure of the many?
ἢ πῶς οὐκ ἂν ἄθλιοι γεγονότες εἶεν ὑπὸ τοῦ καλοῦ τοῦ τῆς δικαιοσύνης καὶ τῆς σωφροσύνης, μηδὲν πλέον νέμοντες τοῖς φίλοις τοῖς αὑτῶν ἢ τοῖς ἐχθροῖς, καὶ ταῦτα ἄρχοντες ἐν τῇ ἑαυτῶν πόλει;
Or how could they fail to have been made miserable by the beauty of justice and temperance, sharing no more with their own friends than with their enemies, and that too while ruling in their own city?
ἀλλὰ τῇ ἀληθείᾳ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἣν φῂς σὺ διώκειν, ὧδʼ ἔχει· τρυφὴ καὶ ἀκολασία καὶ ἐλευθερία, ἐὰν ἐπικουρίαν ἔχῃ, τοῦτʼ ἐστὶν ἀρετή τε καὶ εὐδαιμονία, τὰ δὲ ἄλλα ταῦτʼ ἐστὶν τὰ καλλωπίσματα, τὰ παρὰ φύσιν συνθήματα ἀνθρώπων, φλυαρία καὶ οὐδενὸς ἄξια.
But in truth, Socrates, which you say you pursue, the case is thus: luxury, licentiousness, and freedom, if they have support, this is virtue and happiness, and all these other things are mere embellishments, agreements of men contrary to nature, nonsense and worth nothing.
ΣΩ. οὐκ ἀγεννῶς γε, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, ἐπεξέρχῃ τῷ λόγῳ παρρησιαζόμενος· σαφῶς γὰρ σὺ νῦν λέγεις ἃ οἱ ἄλλοι διανοοῦνται μέν, λέγειν δὲ οὐκ ἐθέλουσιν.
SOCRATES: No ignobly, Callicles, do you pursue the argument with frankness; for you now clearly say what others think but are unwilling to say.
δέομαι οὖν ἐγώ σου μηδενὶ τρόπῳ ἀνεῖναι, ἵνα τῷ ὄντι κατάδηλον γένηται πῶς βιωτέον.
I therefore beg you on no account to give way, so that it may really become clear how we ought to live.
καί μοι λέγε· τὰς μὲν ἐπιθυμίας φῂς οὐ κολαστέον, εἰ μέλλει τις οἷον δεῖ εἶναι, ἐῶντα δὲ αὐτὰς ὡς μεγίστας πλήρωσιν αὐταῖς ἁμόθεν γέ ποθεν ἑτοιμάζειν, καὶ τοῦτο εἶναι τὴν ἀρετήν;
And tell me: you say that the desires must not be restrained if one is to be as one ought, but that, allowing them to be as great as possible, one must prepare fulfillment for them from somewhere or other, and that this is virtue?
ΚΑΛ. φημὶ ταῦτα ἐγώ.
CALLICLES: I say so.
ΣΩ. οὐκ ἄρα ὀρθῶς λέγονται οἱ μηδενὸς δεόμενοι εὐδαίμονες εἶναι.
SOCRATES: Then those who need nothing are not correctly said to be happy.
ΚΑΛ. οἱ λίθοι γὰρ ἂν οὕτω γε καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ εὐδαιμονέστατοι εἶεν.
CALLICLES: For in that way stones and the dead would be most happy.
§493ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὲν δὴ καὶ ὥς γε σὺ λέγεις δεινὸς ὁ βίος.
SOCRATES: But indeed, even as you say, life is a strange thing.
οὐ γάρ τοι θαυμάζοιμʼ ἂν εἰ Εὐριπίδης ἀληθῆ ἐν τοῖσδε λέγει, λέγων—
"
τίς δʼ οἶδεν, εἰ τὸ ζῆν μέν ἐστι κατθανεῖν,
τὸ κατθανεῖν δὲ ζῆν; "
καὶ ἡμεῖς τῷ ὄντι ἴσως τέθναμεν· ἤδη γάρ του ἔγωγε καὶ ἤκουσα τῶν σοφῶν ὡς νῦν ἡμεῖς τέθναμεν καὶ τὸ μὲν σῶμά ἐστιν ἡμῖν σῆμα, τῆς δὲ ψυχῆς τοῦτο ἐν ᾧ ἐπιθυμίαι εἰσὶ τυγχάνει ὂν οἷον ἀναπείθεσθαι καὶ μεταπίπτειν ἄνω κάτω, καὶ τοῦτο ἄρα τις μυθολογῶν κομψὸς ἀνήρ, ἴσως Σικελός τις ἢ Ἰταλικός, παράγων τῷ ὀνόματι διὰ τὸ πιθανόν τε καὶ πειστικὸν ὠνόμασε πίθον, τοὺς δὲ ἀνοήτους ἀμυήτους, τῶν δʼ ἀνοήτων τοῦτο τῆς ψυχῆς οὗ αἱ ἐπιθυμίαι εἰσί, τὸ ἀκόλαστον αὐτοῦ καὶ οὐ στεγανόν, ὡς τετρημένος εἴη πίθος, διὰ τὴν ἀπληστίαν ἀπεικάσας.
For I should not wonder if Euripides speaks the truth in these lines, saying: "Who knows if to live is to be dead, and to be dead is to live?" and we are indeed perhaps dead; for I once heard from the wise that we are now dead and our body is a tomb for us, and that part of the soul in which the desires are happens to be such as to be easily persuaded and to shift up and down. And this, then, some clever man, speaking mythologically, perhaps a Sicilian or an Italian, playing on the name because of its credulous and persuasive nature, called a jar, and the foolish he called the uninitiated; and of the foolish, that part of the soul where the desires are, its licentious and non-watertight part, he compared to a perforated jar, because of its insatiability.
τοὐναντίον δὴ οὗτος σοί, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, ἐνδείκνυται ὡς τῶν ἐν Ἅιδου—τὸ ἀιδὲς δὴ λέγων—οὗτοι ἀθλιώτατοι ἂν εἶεν, οἱ ἀμύητοι, καὶ φοροῖεν εἰς τὸν τετρημένον πίθον ὕδωρ ἑτέρῳ τοιούτῳ τετρημένῳ κοσκίνῳ.
On the contrary to you, Callicles, he indicates that of those in Hades—meaning the unseen—these would be the most miserable, the uninitiated, and they would carry water into the perforated jar with another such perforated sieve.
τὸ δὲ κόσκινον ἄρα λέγει, ὡς ἔφη ὁ πρὸς ἐμὲ λέγων, τὴν ψυχὴν εἶναι· τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν κοσκίνῳ ἀπῄκασεν τὴν τῶν ἀνοήτων ὡς τετρημένην, ἅτε οὐ δυναμένην στέγειν διʼ ἀπιστίαν τε καὶ λήθην.
And the sieve, indeed, as he who spoke to me said, is the soul; and he compared the soul of the foolish to a sieve as being perforated, since it is unable to hold anything through disbelief and forgetfulness.
ταῦτʼ ἐπιεικῶς μέν ἐστιν ὑπό τι ἄτοπα, δηλοῖ μὴν ὃ ἐγὼ βούλομαί σοι ἐνδειξάμενος, ἐάν πως οἷός τε ὦ, πεῖσαι μεταθέσθαι, ἀντὶ τοῦ ἀπλήστως καὶ ἀκολάστως ἔχοντος βίου τὸν κοσμίως καὶ τοῖς ἀεὶ παροῦσιν ἱκανῶς καὶ ἐξαρκούντως ἔχοντα βίον ἑλέσθαι.
These things are, on the whole, somewhat strange, yet they make clear what I want to show you, so that if I can, I may persuade you to change your mind, and instead of a life that is insatiable and licentious, to choose one that is orderly and content and satisfied with what is at hand.
ἀλλὰ πότερον πείθω τί σε καὶ μετατίθεσθαι εὐδαιμονεστέρους εἶναι τοὺς κοσμίους τῶν ἀκολάστων, ἢ οὐδʼ ἂν ἄλλα πολλὰ τοιαῦτα μυθολογῶ, οὐδέν τι μᾶλλον μεταθήσῃ;
But do I persuade you at all to change your mind and believe that the orderly are happier than the licentious, or even if I tell many other such myths, will you change your mind none the more?
ΚΑΛ. τοῦτʼ ἀληθέστερον εἴρηκας, ὦ Σώκρατες.
CALLICLES: The latter is truer, Socrates.
ΣΩ. φέρε δή, ἄλλην σοι εἰκόνα λέγω ἐκ τοῦ αὐτοῦ γυμνασίου τῇ νῦν.
SOCRATES: Come then, let me tell you another image from the same school as the present one.
σκόπει γὰρ εἰ τοιόνδε λέγεις περὶ τοῦ βίου ἑκατέρου, τοῦ τε σώφρονος καὶ τοῦ ἀκολάστου, οἷον εἰ δυοῖν ἀνδροῖν ἑκατέρῳ πίθοι πολλοὶ εἶεν καὶ τῷ μὲν ἑτέρῳ ὑγιεῖς καὶ πλήρεις, ὁ μὲν οἴνου, ὁ δὲ μέλιτος, ὁ δὲ γάλακτος, καὶ ἄλλοι πολλοὶ πολλῶν, νάματα δὲ σπάνια καὶ χαλεπὰ ἑκάστου τούτων εἴη καὶ μετὰ πολλῶν πόνων καὶ χαλεπῶν ἐκποριζόμενα·
For consider if you say something like this about each of the two lives, the temperate and the licentious, as if two men had each many jars, and for one of them they were sound and full, one of wine, another of honey, another of milk, and many others of many things, but the inflows of each of these were rare and difficult, and procured only with many and hard labors;