§484ΚΑΛ. πλάττοντες τοὺς βελτίστους καὶ ἐρρωμενεστάτους ἡμῶν αὐτῶν, ἐκ νέων λαμβάνοντες, ὥσπερ λέοντας, κατεπᾴδοντές τε καὶ γοητεύοντες καταδουλούμεθα λέγοντες ὡς τὸ ἴσον χρὴ ἔχειν καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ καλὸν καὶ τὸ δίκαιον.
CALLICLES: Molding the best and strongest among ourselves, taking them from youth, like lions, chanting over them and bewitching them, we enslave them, saying that it is necessary to have an equal share and that this is what is beautiful and just.
ἐὰν δέ γε οἶμαι φύσιν ἱκανὴν γένηται ἔχων ἀνήρ, πάντα ταῦτα ἀποσεισάμενος καὶ διαρρήξας καὶ διαφυγών, καταπατήσας τὰ ἡμέτερα γράμματα καὶ μαγγανεύματα καὶ ἐπῳδὰς καὶ νόμους τοὺς παρὰ φύσιν ἅπαντας, ἐπαναστὰς ἀνεφάνη δεσπότης ἡμέτερος ὁ δοῦλος, καὶ ἐνταῦθα ἐξέλαμψεν τὸ τῆς φύσεως δίκαιον.
But if, I think, a man arises having a sufficient nature, having shaken off and torn through and escaped all these things, and having trampled underfoot our writings and tricks and charms and all laws contrary to nature, rising up, he who was our slave stands revealed as our master, and there the justice of nature shines forth.
δοκεῖ δέ μοι καὶ Πίνδαρος ἅπερ ἐγὼ λέγω ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἐν τῷ ᾁσματι ἐν ᾧ λέγει ὅτι—
"
νόμος ὁ πάντων βασιλεὺς
θνατῶν τε καὶ ἀθανάτων· "
οὗτος δὲ δή, φησίν,—
"
ἄγει δικαιῶν τὸ βιαιότατον
ὑπερτάτᾳ χειρί· τεκμαίρομαι
ἔργοισιν Ἡρακλέος, ἐπεὶ—ἀπριάτας—
"
λέγει οὕτω πως—τὸ γὰρ ᾆσμα οὐκ ἐπίσταμαι—λέγει δʼ ὅτι οὔτε πριάμενος οὔτε δόντος τοῦ Γηρυόνου ἠλάσατο τὰς βοῦς, ὡς τούτου ὄντος τοῦ δικαίου φύσει, καὶ βοῦς καὶ τἆλλα κτήματα εἶναι πάντα τοῦ βελτίονός τε καὶ κρείττονος τὰ τῶν χειρόνων τε καὶ ἡττόνων.
And Pindar also seems to me to indicate the very things I am saying in the song in which he says that— "Law is the king of all, of mortals and of immortals alike; "and this indeed, he says, "leads, justifying the most violent deed with a supreme hand; I take as evidence the deeds of Heracles, since—unbought— "he speaks somewhat like this—for I do not know the song precisely—but he says that without having bought them and without Geryon having given them, he drove away the cattle, as this being just by nature, that both cattle and all other possessions of the worse and weaker belong to the better and stronger.
τὸ μὲν οὖν ἀληθὲς οὕτως ἔχει, γνώσῃ δέ, ἂν ἐπὶ τὰ μείζω ἔλθῃς ἐάσας ἤδη φιλοσοφίαν.
Indeed, the truth of the matter is so, and you will know it, if you go on to greater things, having already left philosophy aside.
φιλοσοφία γάρ τοί ἐστιν, ὦ Σώκρατες, χαρίεν, ἄν τις αὐτοῦ μετρίως ἅψηται ἐν τῇ ἡλικίᾳ· ἐὰν δὲ περαιτέρω τοῦ δέοντος ἐνδιατρίψῃ, διαφθορὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων.
For philosophy, Socrates, is a charming thing if one touches upon it moderately in youth; but if one spends more time in it than is proper, it is the ruin of men.
ἐὰν γὰρ καὶ πάνυ εὐφυὴς ᾖ καὶ πόρρω τῆς ἡλικίας φιλοσοφῇ, ἀνάγκη πάντων ἄπειρον γεγονέναι ἐστὶν ὧν χρὴ ἔμπειρον εἶναι τὸν μέλλοντα καλὸν κἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐδόκιμον ἔσεσθαι ἄνδρα.
For even if one is very gifted, if he philosophizes far beyond his youth, he must necessarily become inexperienced in all things in which a man who is to be good, noble, and well-reputed must be experienced.
καὶ γὰρ τῶν νόμων ἄπειροι γίγνονται τῶν κατὰ τὴν πόλιν, καὶ τῶν λόγων οἷς δεῖ χρώμενον ὁμιλεῖν ἐν τοῖς συμβολαίοις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις καὶ ἰδίᾳ καὶ δημοσίᾳ, καὶ τῶν ἡδονῶν τε καὶ ἐπιθυμιῶν τῶν ἀνθρωπείων, καὶ συλλήβδην τῶν ἠθῶν παντάπασιν ἄπειροι γίγνονται.
For they become inexperienced in the laws of the city, and in the words one must use in associating with men in contracts both privately and publicly, and in human pleasures and desires, and, in a word, they become altogether inexperienced in human character.
ἐπειδὰν οὖν ἔλθωσιν εἴς τινα ἰδίαν ἢ πολιτικὴν πρᾶξιν, καταγέλαστοι γίγνονται, ὥσπερ γε οἶμαι οἱ πολιτικοί, ἐπειδὰν αὖ εἰς τὰς ὑμετέρας διατριβὰς ἔλθωσιν καὶ τοὺς λόγους, καταγέλαστοί εἰσιν.
Therefore, when they enter upon some private or political action, they become laughingstocks, just as, I think, politicians are laughingstocks when they in turn enter upon your activities and discussions.
§485ΚΑΛ. συμβαίνει γὰρ τὸ τοῦ Εὐριπίδου· "λαμπρός"
τέ ἐστιν
"ἕκαστος"
ἐν τούτῳ,
"καὶ ἐπὶ τοῦτʼ ἐπείγεται"
,
"
νέμων τὸ πλεῖστον ἡμέρας τούτῳ μέρος,
ἵνʼ αὐτὸς αὑτοῦ τυγχάνει βέλτιστος ὤν·
CALLICLES: For that saying of Euripides happens to be true: "Each one" is "brilliant" in this, "and hastens toward this", "allotted the greatest part of the day to it, where he happens to be at his best.
"
ὅπου δʼ ἂν φαῦλος ᾖ, ἐντεῦθεν φεύγει καὶ λοιδορεῖ τοῦτο, τὸ δʼ ἕτερον ἐπαινεῖ, εὐνοίᾳ τῇ ἑαυτοῦ, ἡγούμενος οὕτως αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν ἐπαινεῖν.
"But where he is inferior, from there he flees and abuses it, and praises the other, out of goodwill toward himself, thinking that in this way he praises himself.
ἀλλʼ οἶμαι τὸ ὀρθότατόν ἐστιν ἀμφοτέρων μετασχεῖν.
But I think it is most correct to participate in both.
φιλοσοφίας μὲν ὅσον παιδείας χάριν καλὸν μετέχειν, καὶ οὐκ αἰσχρὸν μειρακίῳ ὄντι φιλοσοφεῖν· ἐπειδὰν δὲ ἤδη πρεσβύτερος ὢν ἄνθρωπος ἔτι φιλοσοφῇ, καταγέλαστον, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸ χρῆμα γίγνεται, καὶ ἔγωγε ὁμοιότατον πάσχω πρὸς τοὺς φιλοσοφοῦντας ὥσπερ πρὸς τοὺς ψελλιζομένους καὶ παίζοντας.
It is beautiful to participate in philosophy as far as education is concerned, and it is not shameful for a youth to philosophize; but when a man already older still philosophizes, the thing becomes a laughingstock, Socrates, and I indeed experience a very similar feeling toward those who philosophize as toward those who lisp and play.
ὅταν μὲν γὰρ παιδίον ἴδω, ᾧ ἔτι προσήκει διαλέγεσθαι οὕτω, ψελλιζόμενον καὶ παῖζον, χαίρω τε καὶ χαρίεν μοι φαίνεται καὶ ἐλευθέριον καὶ πρέπον τῇ τοῦ παιδίου ἡλικίᾳ, ὅταν δὲ σαφῶς διαλεγομένου παιδαρίου ἀκούσω, πικρόν τί μοι δοκεῖ χρῆμα εἶναι καὶ ἀνιᾷ μου τὰ ὦτα καί μοι δοκεῖ δουλοπρεπές τι εἶναι·
For when I see a child, for whom it is still fitting to speak in this way, lisping and playing, I rejoice and it seems to me charming and gentlemanly and appropriate to the age of the child; but when I hear a small child speaking clearly, it seems to me a harsh thing and pains my ears and seems to me to be something slave-like.
ὅταν δὲ ἀνδρὸς ἀκούσῃ τις ψελλιζομένου ἢ παίζοντα ὁρᾷ, καταγέλαστον φαίνεται καὶ ἄνανδρον καὶ πληγῶν ἄξιον.
But when one hears a man lisping or sees him playing, it appears ridiculous and unmanly and deserving of blows.
ταὐτὸν οὖν ἔγωγε τοῦτο πάσχω καὶ πρὸς τοὺς φιλοσοφοῦντας.
I experience this very same thing toward those who philosophize.
παρὰ νέῳ μὲν γὰρ μειρακίῳ ὁρῶν φιλοσοφίαν ἄγαμαι, καὶ πρέπειν μοι δοκεῖ, καὶ ἡγοῦμαι ἐλεύθερόν τινα εἶναι τοῦτον τὸν ἄνθρωπον, τὸν δὲ μὴ φιλοσοφοῦντα ἀνελεύθερον καὶ οὐδέποτε οὐδενὸς ἀξιώσοντα ἑαυτὸν οὔτε καλοῦ οὔτε γενναίου πράγματος·
For seeing philosophy in a young youth, I admire it and it seems to me appropriate, and I think this man is a free man, and the one who does not philosophize is unfree and will never deem himself worthy of any beautiful or noble deed.
ὅταν δὲ δὴ πρεσβύτερον ἴδω ἔτι φιλοσοφοῦντα καὶ μὴ ἀπαλλαττόμενον, πληγῶν μοι δοκεῖ ἤδη δεῖσθαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὗτος ὁ ἀνήρ.
But when indeed I see an older man still philosophizing and not letting go of it, this man, Socrates, seems to me to be already in need of blows.
ὃ γὰρ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον, ὑπάρχει τούτῳ τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ, κἂν πάνυ εὐφυὴς ᾖ, ἀνάνδρῳ γενέσθαι φεύγοντι τὰ μέσα τῆς πόλεως καὶ τὰς ἀγοράς, ἐν αἷς ἔφη ὁ ποιητὴς τοὺς ἄνδρας ἀριπρεπεῖς γίγνεσθαι, καταδεδυκότι δὲ τὸν λοιπὸν βίον βιῶναι μετὰ μειρακίων ἐν γωνίᾳ τριῶν ἢ τεττάρων ψιθυρίζοντα, ἐλεύθερον δὲ καὶ μέγα καὶ ἱκανὸν μηδέποτε φθέγξασθαι.
For what I was just saying happens to this man, even if he is very gifted, to become unmanly, fleeing the center of the city and the agoras, in which the poet said that men become outstanding, and sinking down to live the rest of his life with youths in a corner, whispering with three or four, and never uttering anything free, great, and adequate.
ἐγὼ δέ, ὦ Σώκρατες, πρὸς σὲ ἐπιεικῶς ἔχω φιλικῶς· κινδυνεύω οὖν πεπονθέναι νῦν ὅπερ ὁ Ζῆθος πρὸς τὸν Ἀμφίονα ὁ Εὐριπίδου, οὗπερ ἐμνήσθην.
And I, Socrates, have a reasonably friendly feeling toward you; I am therefore in danger of experiencing now what Zethus experienced toward Amphion in Euripides, whom I just mentioned.