§357ΣΩ. τί δʼ εἰ ἐν τῇ τοῦ περιττοῦ καὶ ἀρτίου αἱρέσει ἡμῖν ἦν ἡ σωτηρία τοῦ βίου, ὁπότε τὸ πλέον ὀρθῶς ἔδει ἑλέσθαι καὶ ὁπότε τὸ ἔλαττον, ἢ αὐτὸ πρὸς ἑαυτὸ ἢ τὸ ἕτερον πρὸς τὸ ἕτερον, εἴτʼ ἐγγὺς εἴτε πόρρω εἴη;
Socrates: "And what if our salvation in life lay in the choice of odd and even, when one had to choose correctly the more and when the less, either itself against itself or one against another, whether they be near or far?
τί ἂν ἔσῳζεν ἡμῖν τὸν βίον;
What would have saved our life?
ἆρʼ ἂν οὐκ ἐπιστήμη;
Would it not be knowledge?
καὶ ἆρʼ ἂν οὐ μετρητική τις, ἐπειδήπερ ὑπερβολῆς τε καὶ ἐνδείας ἐστὶν ἡ τέχνη;
And would it not be some art of measurement, since the art is of excess and deficiency?
ἐπειδὴ δὲ περιττοῦ τε καὶ ἀρτίου, ἆρα ἄλλη τις ἢ ἀριθμητική;
And since it is of odd and even, would it be any other than arithmetic?
Ὁμολογοῖεν ἂν ἡμῖν οἱ ἄνθρωποι ἢ οὔ; —ἐδόκουν ἂν καὶ τῷ Πρωταγόρᾳ ὁμολογεῖν. —εἶεν, ὦ ἄνθρωποι· ἐπεὶ δὲ δὴ ἡδονῆς τε καὶ λύπης ἐν ὀρθῇ τῇ αἱρέσει ἐφάνη ἡμῖν ἡ σωτηρία τοῦ βίου οὖσα, τοῦ τε πλέονος καὶ ἐλάττονος καὶ μείζονος καὶ σμικροτέρου καὶ πορρωτέρω καὶ ἐγγυτέρω, ἆρα πρῶτον μὲν οὐ μετρητικὴ φαίνεται, ὑπερβολῆς τε καὶ ἐνδείας οὖσα καὶ ἰσότητος πρὸς ἀλλήλας σκέψις; —
ἀλλʼ ἀνάγκη. —ἐπεὶ δὲ μετρητική, ἀνάγκῃ δήπου τέχνη καὶ ἐπιστήμη. —
συμφήσουσιν. —ἥτις μὲν τοίνυν τέχνη καὶ ἐπιστήμη ἐστὶν αὕτη, εἰς αὖθις σκεψόμεθα· ὅτι δὲ ἐπιστήμη ἐστίν, τοσοῦτον ἐξαρκεῖ πρὸς τὴν ἀπόδειξιν ἣν ἐμὲ δεῖ καὶ Πρωταγόραν ἀποδεῖξαι περὶ ὧν ἤρεσθʼ ἡμᾶς.
Would men agree with us or not?" —They seemed even to Protagoras to be likely to agree. —"Very well, gentlemen; but since our salvation in life has appeared to consist in the correct choice of pleasure and pain, and of the more and the less and the larger and the smaller and the further and the nearer, does it not first of all appear to be measurement, being an investigation of excess and deficiency and equality in relation to one another?" "Indeed, it must be." —"And since it is measurement, it must, I suppose, be an art and a science." "They will agree." —"Now, what particular art and science this is, we shall consider later; but that it is science is sufficient for the demonstration which Protagoras and I must make in answer to the question you asked us.
ἤρεσθε δέ, εἰ μέμνησθε, ἡνίκα ἡμεῖς ἀλλήλοις ὡμολογοῦμεν ἐπιστήμης μηδὲν εἶναι κρεῖττον, ἀλλὰ τοῦτο ἀεὶ κρατεῖν, ὅπου ἂν ἐνῇ, καὶ ἡδονῆς καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων· ὑμεῖς δὲ δὴ ἔφατε τὴν ἡδονὴν πολλάκις κρατεῖν καὶ τοῦ εἰδότος ἀνθρώπου, ἐπειδὴ δὲ ὑμῖν οὐχ ὡμολογοῦμεν, μετὰ τοῦτο ἤρεσθε ἡμᾶς· ὦ Πρωταγόρα τε καὶ Σώκρατες, εἰ μὴ ἔστι τοῦτο τὸ πάθημα ἡδονῆς ἡττᾶσθαι, ἀλλὰ τί ποτʼ ἐστὶν καὶ τί ὑμεῖς αὐτό φατε εἶναι;
And you asked, if you remember, when we were agreeing with one another that nothing is stronger than knowledge, but that it always rules, wherever it is, both over pleasure and over all other things; but you said that pleasure often rules even over the man who knows, and when we did not agree with you, you asked us after that: 'Protagoras and Socrates, if this experience is not being overcome by pleasure, what on earth is it, and what do you say it is?
εἴπατε ἡμῖν. εἰ μὲν οὖν τότε εὐθὺς ὑμῖν εἴπομεν ὅτι ἀμαθία, κατεγελᾶτε ἂν ἡμῶν· νῦν δὲ ἂν ἡμῶν καταγελᾶτε, καὶ ὑμῶν αὐτῶν καταγελάσεσθε.
Tell us.' If we had told you then immediately that it is ignorance, you would have laughed at us; but now, if you laugh at us, you will laugh at yourselves as well.
καὶ γὰρ ὑμεῖς ὡμολογήκατε ἐπιστήμης ἐνδείᾳ ἐξαμαρτάνειν περὶ τὴν τῶν ἡδονῶν αἵρεσιν καὶ λυπῶν τοὺς ἐξαμαρτάνοντας—ταῦτα δέ ἐστιν ἀγαθά τε καὶ κακά—καὶ οὐ μόνον ἐπιστήμης, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἧς τὸ πρόσθεν ἔτι ὡμολογήκατε ὅτι μετρητικῆς·
For you too have agreed that those who err in the choice of pleasures and pains—and these are goods and evils—err through lack of knowledge, and not merely of knowledge, but of that which you have further agreed just now is the art of measurement.
ἡ δὲ ἐξαμαρτανομένη πρᾶξις ἄνευ ἐπιστήμης ἴστε που καὶ αὐτοὶ ὅτι ἀμαθίᾳ πράττεται.
And you yourselves surely know that an erring action done without knowledge is done through ignorance.
ὥστε τοῦτʼ ἐστὶν τὸ ἡδονῆς ἥττω εἶναι, ἀμαθία ἡ μεγίστη, ἧς Πρωταγόρας ὅδε φησὶν ἰατρὸς εἶναι καὶ Πρόδικος καὶ Ἱππίας·
So that this is what being overcome by pleasure is: the greatest ignorance, of which Protagoras here claims to be a healer, as do Prodicus and Hippias.
ὑμεῖς δὲ διὰ τὸ οἴεσθαι ἄλλο τι ἢ ἀμαθίαν εἶναι οὔτε αὐτοὶ οὔτε τοὺς ὑμετέρους παῖδας παρὰ τοὺς τούτων διδασκάλους τούσδε τοὺς σοφιστὰς πέμπετε, ὡς οὐ διδακτοῦ ὄντος, ἀλλὰ κηδόμενοι τοῦ ἀργυρίου καὶ οὐ διδόντες τούτοις κακῶς πράττετε καὶ ἰδίᾳ καὶ δημοσίᾳ.
But because you think it is something other than ignorance, you neither go yourselves nor send your children to these sophists, their teachers, believing that virtue is not teachable; rather, by sparing your money and not giving it to them, you fare badly both in private and in public."