§334ΣΩ. πότερον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, λέγεις, ὦ Πρωταγόρα, ἃ μηδενὶ ἀνθρώπων ὠφέλιμά ἐστιν, ἢ ἃ μηδὲ τὸ παράπαν ὠφέλιμα;
Socrates: "Do you mean, Protagoras," I said, "things which are beneficial to no human, or things which are not beneficial at all?
καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα σὺ ἀγαθὰ καλεῖς; —
οὐδαμῶς,
ἔφη·
And do you call such things good?" "By no means," he said.
ἀλλʼ ἔγωγε πολλὰ οἶδʼ ἃ ἀνθρώποις μὲν ἀνωφελῆ ἐστι, καὶ σιτία καὶ ποτὰ καὶ φάρμακα καὶ ἄλλα μυρία, τὰ δέ γε ὠφέλιμα· τὰ δὲ ἀνθρώποις μὲν οὐδέτερα, ἵπποις δέ· τὰ δὲ βουσὶν μόνον, τὰ δὲ κυσίν· τὰ δέ γε τούτων μὲν οὐδενί, δένδροις δέ· τὰ δὲ τοῦ δένδρου ταῖς μὲν ῥίζαις ἀγαθά, ταῖς δὲ βλάσταις πονηρά, οἷον καὶ ἡ κόπρος πάντων τῶν φυτῶν ταῖς μὲν ῥίζαις ἀγαθὸν παραβαλλομένη, εἰ δʼ ἐθέλοις ἐπὶ τοὺς πτόρθους καὶ τοὺς νέους κλῶνας ἐπιβάλλειν, πάντα ἀπόλλυσιν·
"But I for my part know many things which are useless to humans, both foods and drinks and drugs and countless other things, which are indeed beneficial (to other things); and some which are neutral for humans, but beneficial for horses; and some for cattle only, and some for dogs; and some indeed for none of these, but for trees; and some things of the tree are good for the roots, but bad for the shoots; just as dung is a good thing for the roots of all plants when applied there, but if you should want to cast it upon the young branches and new twigs, it destroys everything.
ἐπεὶ καὶ τὸ ἔλαιον τοῖς μὲν φυτοῖς ἅπασίν ἐστιν πάγκακον καὶ ταῖς θριξὶν πολεμιώτατον ταῖς τῶν ἄλλων ζῴων πλὴν ταῖς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ταῖς δὲ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἀρωγὸν καὶ τῷ ἄλλῳ σώματι.
Since oil too is utterly bad for all plants and most hostile to the hair of all other animals except that of humans, but for the hair and the rest of the body of humans it is a help.
οὕτω δὲ ποικίλον τί ἐστιν τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ παντοδαπόν, ὥστε καὶ ἐνταῦθα τοῖς μὲν ἔξωθεν τοῦ σώματος ἀγαθόν ἐστιν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ, τοῖς δʼ ἐντὸς ταὐτὸν τοῦτο κάκιστον· καὶ διὰ τοῦτο οἱ ἰατροὶ πάντες ἀπαγορεύουσιν τοῖς ἀσθενοῦσιν μὴ χρῆσθαι ἐλαίῳ ἀλλʼ ἢ ὅτι σμικροτάτῳ ἐν τούτοις οἷς μέλλει ἔδεσθαι, ὅσον μόνον τὴν δυσχέρειαν κατασβέσαι τὴν ἐπὶ ταῖς αἰσθήσεσι ταῖς διὰ τῶν ῥινῶν γιγνομένην ἐν τοῖς σιτίοις τε καὶ ὄψοις. εἰπόντος οὖν ταῦτα αὐτοῦ οἱ παρόντες ἀνεθορύβησαν ὡς εὖ λέγοι, καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον·
And the good is something so complex and diverse, that even here this very same thing is good for a human on the outside of the body, but on the inside it is worst; and for this reason all doctors forbid the sick to use oil, except in the very smallest quantity in those things which they are about to eat, just enough to extinguish the unpleasant smell that arises in food and dishes through the nostrils." When he had said this, those present raised a clamor to show how well he had spoken, and I said: "Protagoras, I happen to be a rather forgetful person, and if someone speaks at length to me, I forget what the argument is about.
ὦ Πρωταγόρα, ἐγὼ τυγχάνω ἐπιλήσμων τις ὢν ἄνθρωπος, καὶ ἐάν τίς μοι μακρὰ λέγῃ, ἐπιλανθάνομαι περὶ οὗ ἂν ᾖ ὁ λόγος. ὥσπερ οὖν εἰ ἐτύγχανον ὑπόκωφος ὤν, ᾤου ἂν χρῆναι, εἴπερ ἔμελλές μοι διαλέξεσθαι, μεῖζον φθέγγεσθαι ἢ πρὸς τοὺς ἄλλους, οὕτω καὶ νῦν, ἐπειδὴ ἐπιλήσμονι ἐνέτυχες, σύντεμνέ μοι τὰς ἀποκρίσεις καὶ βραχυτέρας ποίει, εἰ μέλλω σοι ἕπεσθαι.
Just as, therefore, if I happened to be hard of hearing, you would have thought it necessary, if indeed you were going to converse with me, to speak louder than to others, so now too, since you have met a forgetful person, cut down your answers for me and make them shorter, if I am to follow you." "How then do you bid me to answer briefly?
πῶς οὖν κελεύεις με βραχέα ἀποκρίνεσθαι; ἢ βραχύτερά σοι,
ἔφη,
ἀποκρίνωμαι ἢ δεῖ; μηδαμῶς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
Shall I answer you," he said, "more briefly than is necessary?" "By no means," I said.
ἀλλʼ ὅσα δεῖ; ἔφη.
"But as much as is necessary?" he said.
ναί, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
"Yes," I said.
πότερα οὖν ὅσα ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ δεῖν ἀποκρίνεσθαι, τοσαῦτά σοι ἀποκρίνωμαι, ἢ ὅσα σοί; §335ΣΩ. ἀκήκοα γοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι σὺ οἷός τʼ εἶ καὶ αὐτὸς καὶ ἄλλον διδάξαι περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν καὶ μακρὰ λέγειν, ἐὰν βούλῃ, οὕτως ὥστε τὸν λόγον μηδέποτε ἐπιλιπεῖν, καὶ αὖ βραχέα οὕτως ὥστε μηδένα σοῦ ἐν βραχυτέροις εἰπεῖν·
"Should I then answer you with as many words as seem necessary to me, or as many as seem so to you?" Socrates: "At any rate, I have heard," I said, "that you are able, both yourself and to teach another, about the same things, to speak at length, if you wish, so that the speech never runs out, and in turn so briefly that no one could speak in fewer words than you.
εἰ οὖν μέλλεις ἐμοὶ διαλέξεσθαι, τῷ ἑτέρῳ χρῶ τρόπῳ πρός με, τῇ βραχυλογίᾳ. ὦ Σώκρατες,
ἔφη,
ἐγὼ πολλοῖς ἤδη εἰς ἀγῶνα λόγων ἀφικόμην ἀνθρώποις, καὶ εἰ τοῦτο ἐποίουν ὃ σὺ κελεύεις, ὡς ὁ ἀντιλέγων ἐκέλευέν με διαλέγεσθαι, οὕτω διελεγόμην, οὐδενὸς ἂν βελτίων ἐφαινόμην οὐδʼ ἂν ἐγένετο Πρωταγόρου ὄνομα ἐν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν. καὶ ἐγώ—ἔγνων γὰρ ὅτι οὐκ ἤρεσεν αὐτὸς αὑτῷ ταῖς ἀποκρίσεσιν ταῖς ἔμπροσθεν, καὶ ὅτι οὐκ ἐθελήσοι ἑκὼν εἶναι ἀποκρινόμενος διαλέγεσθαι—ἡγησάμενος οὐκέτι ἐμὸν ἔργον εἶναι παρεῖναι ἐν ταῖς συνουσίαις, ἀλλά τοι, ἔφην, ὦ Πρωταγόρα, οὐδʼ ἐγὼ λιπαρῶς ἔχω παρὰ τὰ σοὶ δοκοῦντα τὴν συνουσίαν ἡμῖν γίγνεσθαι, ἀλλʼ ἐπειδὰν σὺ βούλῃ διαλέγεσθαι ὡς ἐγὼ δύναμαι ἕπεσθαι, τότε σοι διαλέξομαι.
If, therefore, you are going to converse with me, use the other method with me, brevity of speech." "Socrates," he said, "I have already entered into contests of speech with many people, and if I did what you bid, and conversed in the way that my opponent bid me to converse, I would have appeared no better than anyone, nor would the name of Protagoras have arisen among the Greeks." And I—for I realized that he was not pleased with himself in his previous answers, and that he would not willingly, if he could help it, converse by answering—thinking that it was no longer my business to be present at the gatherings, said: "But indeed, Protagoras, I too am not eager for our gathering to take place contrary to what seems best to you; but whenever you wish to converse in such a way that I can follow, then I will converse with you.
σὺ μὲν γάρ, ὡς λέγεται περὶ σοῦ, φῂς δὲ καὶ αὐτός, καὶ ἐν μακρολογίᾳ καὶ ἐν βραχυλογίᾳ οἷός τʼ εἶ συνουσίας ποιεῖσθαι —σοφὸς γὰρ εἶ—ἐγὼ δὲ τὰ μακρὰ ταῦτα ἀδύνατος, ἐπεὶ ἐβουλόμην ἂν οἷός τʼ εἶναι. ἀλλὰ σὲ ἐχρῆν ἡμῖν συγχωρεῖν τὸν ἀμφότερα δυνάμενον, ἵνα ἡ συνουσία ἐγίγνετο·
For you, as is said of you, and as you yourself say, are capable of holding gatherings both in long speech and in brevity of speech —for you are wise—but I am incapable of these long speeches, although I would have wished to be capable of them.
νῦν δὲ ἐπειδὴ οὐκ ἐθέλεις καὶ ἐμοί τις ἀσχολία ἐστὶν καὶ οὐκ ἂν οἷός τʼ εἴην σοι παραμεῖναι ἀποτείνοντι μακροὺς λόγους—ἐλθεῖν γάρ ποί με δεῖ—εἶμι· ἐπεὶ καὶ ταῦτʼ ἂν ἴσως οὐκ ἀηδῶς σου ἤκουον. καὶ ἅμα ταῦτʼ εἰπὼν ἀνιστάμην ὡς ἀπιών· καί μου ἀνισταμένου ἐπιλαμβάνεται ὁ Καλλίας τῆς χειρὸς τῇ δεξιᾷ, τῇ δʼ ἀριστερᾷ ἀντελάβετο τοῦ τρίβωνος τουτουΐ, καὶ εἶπεν· οὐκ ἀφήσομέν σε, ὦ Σώκρατες·
But you, who are capable of both, ought to have conceded to us, so that the gathering could take place; but now, since you are unwilling, and I have some business and would not be able to remain with you while you spin out long speeches—for I must go somewhere—I am off; although I would perhaps have listened to these things from you not without pleasure." And as I said this, I stood up as if to depart; and as I was standing up, Callias grasped my hand with his right hand, and with his left hand took hold of this worn cloak of mine, and said: "We shall not let you go, Socrates; for if you leave, our dialogues will not be the same for us.
ἐὰν γὰρ σὺ ἐξέλθῃς, οὐχ ὁμοίως ἡμῖν ἔσονται οἱ διάλογοι. δέομαι οὖν σου παραμεῖναι ἡμῖν· ὡς ἐγὼ οὐδʼ ἂν ἑνὸς ἥδιον ἀκούσαιμι ἢ σοῦ τε καὶ Πρωταγόρου διαλεγομένων.
I beg you, therefore, to remain with us; as there is no one whom I would more gladly hear than you and Protagoras conversing.
ἀλλὰ χάρισαι ἡμῖν πᾶσιν. καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον—ἤδη δὲ ἀνειστήκη ὡς ἐξιών—ὦ παῖ Ἱππονίκου, ἀεὶ μὲν ἔγωγέ σου τὴν φιλοσοφίαν ἄγαμαι, ἀτὰρ καὶ νῦν ἐπαινῶ καὶ φιλῶ, ὥστε βουλοίμην ἂν χαρίζεσθαί σοι, εἴ μου δυνατὰ δέοιο·
Come, do this favor for all of us." And I said—for I had already stood up as if to go out—"O son of Hipponicus, I always admire your love of wisdom, and indeed now too I praise and love it, so that I would wish to do you a favor, if you were to ask of me what is possible;"