§194ΣΩ. τῷ λόγῳ ὃς καρτερεῖν κελεύει.
Socrates: To the argument which commands us to endure.
εἰ οὖν βούλει, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐπὶ τῇ ζητήσει ἐπιμείνωμέν τε καὶ καρτερήσωμεν, ἵνα καὶ μὴ ἡμῶν αὐτὴ ἡ ἀνδρεία καταγελάσῃ, ὅτι οὐκ ἀνδρείως αὐτὴν ζητοῦμεν, εἰ ἄρα πολλάκις αὐτὴ ἡ καρτέρησίς ἐστιν ἀνδρεία.
If then you are willing, let us also stand our ground and endure in this search, so that courage itself may not mock us for not searching for it courageously, if indeed endurance itself should after all be courage.
ΛΑ. ἐγὼ μὲν ἕτοιμος, ὦ Σώκρατες, μὴ προαφίστασθαι.
Laches: I am ready, Socrates, not to give up.
καίτοι ἀήθης γʼ εἰμὶ τῶν τοιούτων λόγων· ἀλλά τίς με καὶ φιλονικία εἴληφεν πρὸς τὰ εἰρημένα, καὶ ὡς ἀληθῶς ἀγανακτῶ εἰ οὑτωσὶ ἃ νοῶ μὴ οἷός τʼ εἰμὶ εἰπεῖν.
And yet I am unaccustomed to such arguments; but a certain competitiveness has seized me against what has been said, and I am truly annoyed if I am thus unable to speak what I have in mind.
νοεῖν μὲν γὰρ ἔμοιγε δοκῶ περὶ ἀνδρείας ὅτι ἔστιν, οὐκ οἶδα δʼ ὅπῃ με ἄρτι διέφυγεν, ὥστε μὴ συλλαβεῖν τῷ λόγῳ αὐτὴν καὶ εἰπεῖν ὅτι ἔστιν.
For I think I understand about courage, what it is, but I do not know how it has just now escaped me, so that I cannot grasp it with words and say what it is.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν, ὦ φίλε, τὸν ἀγαθὸν κυνηγέτην μεταθεῖν χρὴ καὶ μὴ ἀνιέναι.
Socrates: Then, my friend, the good hunter must pursue and not give up.
ΛΑ. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Laches: Absolutely indeed.
ΣΩ. βούλει οὖν καὶ Νικίαν τόνδε παρακαλῶμεν ἐπὶ τὸ κυνηγέσιον, εἴ τι ἡμῶν εὐπορώτερός ἐστιν;
Socrates: Are you willing then that we should also call Nicias here to the hunt, to see if he is more resourceful than we are?
ΛΑ. βούλομαι· πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Laches: I am willing; for why not?
ΣΩ. ἴθι δή, ὦ Νικία, ἀνδράσι φίλοις χειμαζομένοις ἐν λόγῳ καὶ ἀποροῦσιν βοήθησον, εἴ τινα ἔχεις δύναμιν.
Socrates: Come then, Nicias, help your friends who are storm-tossed in argument and at a loss, if you have any power.
τὰ μὲν γὰρ δὴ ἡμέτερα ὁρᾷς ὡς ἄπορα· σὺ δʼ εἰπὼν ὅτι ἡγῇ ἀνδρείαν εἶναι, ἡμᾶς τε τῆς ἀπορίας ἔκλυσαι καὶ αὐτὸς ἃ νοεῖς τῷ λόγῳ βεβαίωσαι.
For you see how helpless our situation is; so by saying what you think courage is, deliver us from our distress and confirm what you have in mind for yourself by argument.
ΝΙ. δοκεῖτε τοίνυν μοι πάλαι οὐ καλῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁρίζεσθαι τὴν ἀνδρείαν· ὃ γὰρ ἐγὼ σοῦ ἤδη καλῶς λέγοντος ἀκήκοα, τούτῳ οὐ χρῆσθε.
Nicias: It has seemed to me for a long time, Socrates, that you two are not defining courage well; for you are not using what I have heard you speak of well before.
ΣΩ. ποίῳ δή, ὦ Νικία;
Socrates: What kind of thing is that, Nicias?
ΝΙ. πολλάκις ἀκήκοά σου λέγοντος ὅτι ταῦτα ἀγαθὸς ἕκαστος ἡμῶν ἅπερ σοφός, ἃ δὲ ἀμαθής, ταῦτα δὲ κακός.
Nicias: I have often heard you saying that each of us is good in those things in which he is wise, and bad in those in which he is unlearned.
ΣΩ. ἀληθῆ μέντοι νὴ Δία λέγεις, ὦ Νικία.
Socrates: By Zeus, you speak the truth, Nicias.
ΝΙ. οὐκοῦν εἴπερ ὁ ἀνδρεῖος ἀγαθός, δῆλον ὅτι σοφός ἐστιν.
Nicias: Therefore, if the courageous man is good, it is clear that he is wise.
ΣΩ. ἤκουσας, ὦ Λάχης;
Socrates: Did you hear that, Laches?
ΛΑ. ἔγωγε, καὶ οὐ σφόδρα γε μανθάνω ὃ λέγει.
Laches: I did, and I do not quite understand what he is saying.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἐγὼ δοκῶ μανθάνειν, καί μοι δοκεῖ ἁνὴρ σοφίαν τινὰ τὴν ἀνδρείαν λέγειν.
Socrates: But I seem to understand, and it seems to me that the man is saying courage is a certain wisdom.
ΛΑ. ποίαν, ὦ Σώκρατες, σοφίαν;
Laches: What kind of wisdom, Socrates?
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τόνδε τοῦτο ἐρωτᾷς;
Socrates: Are you asking him this?
ΛΑ. ἔγωγε.
Laches: I am.
ΣΩ. ἴθι δή, αὐτῷ εἰπέ, ὦ Νικία, ποία σοφία ἀνδρεία ἂν εἴη κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον.
Socrates: Come then, tell him, Nicias, what kind of wisdom courage would be according to your argument.
οὐ γάρ που ἥ γε αὐλητική.
For it is surely not flute-playing.
ΝΙ. οὐδαμῶς.
Nicias: Not at all.
ΣΩ. οὐδὲ μὴν ἡ κιθαριστική.
Socrates: Nor indeed is it lyre-playing.
ΝΙ. οὐ δῆτα.
Nicias: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τίς δὴ αὕτη ἢ τίνος ἐπιστήμη;
Socrates: But what is this, and what is it the knowledge of?
ΛΑ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς αὐτὸν ἐρωτᾷς, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ εἰπέτω γε τίνα φησὶν αὐτὴν εἶναι.
Laches: You are asking him quite rightly, Socrates; so let him say what he claims it is.
§195ΝΙ. ταύτην ἔγωγε, ὦ Λάχης, τὴν τῶν δεινῶν καὶ θαρραλέων ἐπιστήμην καὶ ἐν πολέμῳ καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις ἅπασιν.
Nicias: I claim, Laches, that it is this: the knowledge of what is to be feared and what is to be dared, both in war and in all other things.
ΛΑ. ὡς ἄτοπα λέγει, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Laches: How strangely he speaks, Socrates.
ΣΩ. πρὸς τί τοῦτʼ εἶπες βλέψας, ὦ Λάχης;
Socrates: With view to what did you say this, Laches?
ΛΑ. πρὸς ὅτι;
Laches: With view to what?
χωρὶς δήπου σοφία ἐστὶν ἀνδρείας.
Wisdom is surely separate from courage.
ΣΩ. οὔκουν φησί γε Νικίας.
Socrates: Nicias, at any rate, says it is not.
ΛΑ. οὐ μέντοι μὰ Δία· ταῦτά τοι καὶ ληρεῖ.
Laches: By Zeus, indeed he does not; and that is why he is talking nonsense.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν διδάσκωμεν αὐτὸν ἀλλὰ μὴ λοιδορῶμεν.
Socrates: Let us then instruct him and not abuse him.
ΝΙ. οὔκ, ἀλλά μοι δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες, Λάχης ἐπιθυμεῖν κἀμὲ φανῆναι μηδὲν λέγοντα, ὅτι καὶ αὐτὸς ἄρτι τοιοῦτός τις ἐφάνη.
Nicias: No, but it seems to me, Socrates, that Laches desires that I too should appear to be saying nothing, because he himself was just now shown to be in such a state.
ΛΑ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ὦ Νικία, καὶ πειράσομαί γε ἀποφῆναι· οὐδὲν γὰρ λέγεις.
Laches: Indeed, Nicias, and I shall try to show it; for you are saying nothing.
ἐπεὶ αὐτίκα ἐν ταῖς νόσοις οὐχ οἱ ἰατροὶ τὰ δεινὰ ἐπίστανται;
For instance, in diseases, is it not the physicians who know what is to be feared?
ἢ οἱ ἀνδρεῖοι δοκοῦσί σοι ἐπίστασθαι;
Or do you think the courageous know?
ἢ τοὺς ἰατροὺς σὺ ἀνδρείους καλεῖς;
Or do you call physicians courageous?
ΝΙ. οὐδʼ ὁπωστιοῦν.
Nicias: Not in any way at all.
ΛΑ. οὐδέ γε τοὺς γεωργοὺς οἶμαι.
Laches: Nor indeed the farmers, I suppose.
καίτοι τά γε ἐν τῇ γεωργίᾳ δεινὰ οὗτοι δήπου ἐπίστανται, καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι δημιουργοὶ ἅπαντες τὰ ἐν ταῖς αὑτῶν τέχναις δεινά τε καὶ θαρραλέα ἴσασιν· ἀλλʼ οὐδέν τι μᾶλλον οὗτοι ἀνδρεῖοί εἰσιν.
And yet they surely know what is to be feared in agriculture, and all the other craftsmen know what is to be feared and what is to be dared in their own arts; but they are not any more courageous for all that.
ΣΩ. τί δοκεῖ Λάχης λέγειν, ὦ Νικία;
Socrates: What does Laches seem to be saying, Nicias?
ἔοικεν μέντοι λέγειν τι.
He seems indeed to be saying something.
ΝΙ. καὶ γὰρ λέγει γέ τι, οὐ μέντοι ἀληθές γε.
Nicias: Indeed he is saying something, but not the truth.
ΣΩ. πῶς δή;
Socrates: How so?
ΝΙ. ὅτι οἴεται τοὺς ἰατροὺς πλέον τι εἰδέναι περὶ τοὺς κάμνοντας ἢ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν εἰπεῖν οἷόν τε καὶ νοσῶδες.
Nicias: Because he thinks that physicians know something more about the sick than how to say what is healthy and what is diseased.
οἱ δὲ δήπου τοσοῦτον μόνον ἴσασιν·
But they surely know only this much.
εἰ δὲ δεινόν τῳ τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ ὑγιαίνειν μᾶλλον ἢ τὸ κάμνειν, ἡγῇ σὺ τουτί, ὦ Λάχης, τοὺς ἰατροὺς ἐπίστασθαι;
But whether health is more to be feared for someone than being sick, do you think, Laches, that physicians know this?
ἢ οὐ πολλοῖς οἴει ἐκ τῆς νόσου ἄμεινον εἶναι μὴ ἀναστῆναι ἢ ἀναστῆναι;
Or do you not think that for many it is better not to recover from sickness than to recover?
τοῦτο γὰρ εἰπέ· σὺ πᾶσι φῂς ἄμεινον εἶναι ζῆν καὶ οὐ πολλοῖς κρεῖττον τεθνάναι;
Tell me this: do you say that it is better for all to live and not better for many to die?
ΛΑ. οἶμαι ἔγωγε τοῦτό γε.
Laches: I, for my part, think so.
ΝΙ. οἷς οὖν τεθνάναι λυσιτελεῖ, ταὐτὰ οἴει δεινὰ εἶναι καὶ οἷς ζῆν;
Nicias: For those, then, for whom it is beneficial to die, do you think the same things are to be feared as for those for whom it is beneficial to live?
ΛΑ. οὐκ ἔγωγε.
Laches: Not I.
ΝΙ. ἀλλὰ τοῦτο δὴ σὺ δίδως τοῖς ἰατροῖς γιγνώσκειν ἢ ἄλλῳ τινὶ δημιουργῷ πλὴν τῷ τῶν δεινῶν καὶ μὴ δεινῶν ἐπιστήμονι, ὃν ἐγὼ ἀνδρεῖον καλῶ;
Nicias: But do you grant that physicians know this, or any other craftsman except the one who is expert in what is to be feared and what is not, whom I call courageous?
ΣΩ. κατανοεῖς, ὦ Λάχης, ὅτι λέγει;
Socrates: Do you understand, Laches, what he is saying?
ΛΑ. ἔγωγε, ὅτι γε τοὺς μάντεις καλεῖ τοὺς ἀνδρείους·
Laches: I do; he is calling prophets courageous.
τίς γὰρ δὴ ἄλλος εἴσεται ὅτῳ ἄμεινον ζῆν ἢ τεθνάναι;
For who else indeed will know for whom it is better to live than to die?
καίτοι σύ, ὦ Νικία, πότερον ὁμολογεῖς μάντις εἶναι ἢ οὔτε μάντις οὔτε ἀνδρεῖος;
And yet, Nicias, do you confess that you are a prophet, or are you neither prophet nor courageous?
ΝΙ. τί δέ;
Nicias: What?
μάντει αὖ οἴει προσήκει τὰ δεινὰ γιγνώσκειν καὶ τὰ θαρραλέα;
Do you think it belongs to a prophet in turn to know what is to be feared and what is to be dared?
ΛΑ. ἔγωγε· τίνι γὰρ ἄλλῳ;
Laches: I do; for to whom else?