§180ΛΥ. ταῦτʼ ἐστὶν ἃ ἐβουλόμεθα ὑμῖν ἀνακοινώσασθαι.
Lysimachus: These are the matters we wanted to communicate to you.
ἤδη οὖν ὑμέτερον μέρος συμβουλεύειν καὶ περὶ τούτου τοῦ μαθήματος, εἴτε δοκεῖ χρῆναι μανθάνειν εἴτε μή, καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων, εἴ τι ἔχετε ἐπαινέσαι μάθημα νέῳ ἀνδρὶ ἢ ἐπιτήδευμα, καὶ περὶ τῆς κοινωνίας λέγειν ὁποῖόν τι ποιήσετε.
Now, therefore, it is your turn to advise us both about this study, whether it seems necessary to learn it or not, and about others, if you have any study or practice to recommend for a young man, and to say what kind of partnership you will form with us.
ΝΙ. ἐγὼ μέν, ὦ Λυσίμαχε καὶ Μελησία, ἐπαινῶ τε ὑμῶν τὴν διάνοιαν καὶ κοινωνεῖν ἕτοιμος, οἶμαι δὲ καὶ Λάχητα τόνδε.
Nicias: For my part, Lysimachus and Melesias, I praise your intention and am ready to join you, and I think Laches here is also.
ΛΑ. ἀληθῆ γὰρ οἴει, ὦ Νικία.
Laches: Indeed, Nicias, your thought is true.
ὡς ὅ γε ἔλεγεν ὁ Λυσίμαχος ἄρτι περὶ τοῦ πατρὸς τοῦ αὑτοῦ τε καὶ τοῦ Μελησίου, πάνυ μοι δοκεῖ εὖ εἰρῆσθαι καὶ εἰς ἐκείνους καὶ εἰς ἡμᾶς καὶ εἰς ἅπαντας ὅσοι τὰ τῶν πόλεων πράττουσιν, ὅτι αὐτοῖς σχεδόν τι ταῦτα συμβαίνει ἃ οὗτος λέγει καὶ περὶ παῖδας καὶ περὶ τἆλλα, τὰ ἴδια ὀλιγωρεῖσθαί τε καὶ ἀμελῶς διατίθεσθαι.
For what Lysimachus was just saying about his own father and that of Melesias seems to me very well said, applying not only to them, but also to us and to all who manage the affairs of cities; for nearly the same thing happens to them as he says, both regarding their children and other things, that their private affairs are neglected and treated carelessly.
ταῦτα μὲν οὖν καλῶς λέγεις, ὦ Λυσίμαχε· ὅτι δʼ ἡμᾶς μὲν συμβούλους παρακαλεῖς ἐπὶ τὴν τῶν νεανίσκων παιδείαν, Σωκράτη δὲ τόνδε οὐ παρακαλεῖς, θαυμάζω, πρῶτον μὲν ὄντα δημότην, ἔπειτα ἐνταῦθα ἀεὶ τὰς διατριβὰς ποιούμενον ὅπου τί ἐστι τῶν τοιούτων ὧν σὺ ζητεῖς περὶ τοὺς νέους ἢ μάθημα ἢ ἐπιτήδευμα καλόν.
On these points indeed you speak well, Lysimachus; but that you invite us as advisers on the education of the youths, yet do not invite Socrates here, surprises me, first because he is your fellow-demesman, and secondly because he always spends his time in those places where there is any such fine study or practice for the young as you are seeking.
ΛΥ. πῶς λέγεις, ὦ Λάχης;
Lysimachus: What do you mean, Laches?
Σωκράτης γὰρ ὅδε τινὸς τῶν τοιούτων ἐπιμέλειαν πεποίηται;
Has Socrates here actually paid attention to any of these matters?
ΛΑ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ὦ Λυσίμαχε.
Laches: Certainly he has, Lysimachus.
ΝΙ. τοῦτο μέν σοι κἂν ἐγὼ ἔχοιμι εἰπεῖν οὐ χεῖρον Λάχητος· καὶ γὰρ αὐτῷ μοι ἔναγχος ἄνδρα προυξένησε τῷ ὑεῖ διδάσκαλον μουσικῆς, Ἀγαθοκλέους μαθητὴν Δάμωνα, ἀνδρῶν χαριέστατον οὐ μόνον τὴν μουσικήν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τἆλλα ὁπόσου βούλει ἄξιον συνδιατρίβειν τηλικούτοις νεανίσκοις.
Nicias: Indeed, I too could tell you this no worse than Laches; for only recently he recommended a man to me as a music teacher for my son, Damon, a pupil of Agathocles, who is the most accomplished of men, not only in music, but in all other respects as well, and worthy of spending time with youths of such an age.
ΛΥ. οὔτοι, ὦ Σώκρατές τε καὶ Νικία καὶ Λάχης, οἱ ἡλίκοι ἐγὼ ἔτι γιγνώσκομεν τοὺς νεωτέρους, ἅτε κατʼ οἰκίαν τὰ πολλὰ διατρίβοντες ὑπὸ τῆς ἡλικίας· ἀλλʼ εἴ τι καὶ σύ, ὦ παῖ Σωφρονίσκου, ἔχεις τῷδε τῷ σαυτοῦ δημότῃ ἀγαθὸν συμβουλεῦσαι, χρὴ συμβουλεύειν.
Lysimachus: Indeed, Socrates, Nicias, and Laches, men of my age no longer know the younger generation, since we spend most of our time at home because of our age; but if you too, son of Sophroniscus, have any good advice to give to this fellow-demesman of yours, you ought to give it.
δίκαιος δʼ εἶ· καὶ γὰρ πατρικὸς ἡμῖν φίλος τυγχάνεις ὤν· ἀεὶ γὰρ ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ σὸς πατὴρ ἑταίρω τε καὶ φίλω ἦμεν, καὶ πρότερον ἐκεῖνος ἐτελεύτησε, πρίν τι ἐμοὶ διενεχθῆναι.
And indeed you are bound to do so; for you happen to be a hereditary friend of ours; for your father and I were always companions and friends, and he died before any disagreement arose between us.
§181ΛΥ. περιφέρει δέ τίς με καὶ μνήμη ἄρτι τῶνδε λεγόντων· τὰ γὰρ μειράκια τάδε πρὸς ἀλλήλους οἴκοι διαλεγόμενοι θαμὰ ἐπιμέμνηνται Σωκράτους καὶ σφόδρα ἐπαινοῦσιν· οὐ μέντοι πώποτε αὐτοὺς ἀνηρώτησα εἰ τὸν Σωφρονίσκου λέγοιεν.
Lysimachus: And indeed, a certain memory comes back to me just now as these men are speaking; for these youths here, when conversing with each other at home, frequently mention Socrates and praise him highly; however, I never asked them whether they meant the son of Sophroniscus.
ἀλλʼ, ὦ παῖδες, λέγετέ μοι, ὅδʼ ἐστὶ Σωκράτης, περὶ οὗ ἑκάστοτε ἐμέμνησθε;
But tell me, boys, is this the Socrates you were always mentioning?
ΠΑΙ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ὦ πάτερ, οὗτος.
Boys: Certainly, father, this is he.
ΛΥ. εὖ γε νὴ τὴν Ἥραν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι ὀρθοῖς τὸν πατέρα, ἄριστον ἀνδρῶν ὄντα, καὶ ἄλλως καὶ δὴ καὶ ὅτι οἰκεῖα τά τε σὰ ἡμῖν ὑπάρξει καὶ σοὶ τὰ ἡμέτερα.
Lysimachus: Well done, by Hera, Socrates, that you uphold the name of your father, who was the best of men, both for other reasons and especially because your affairs will be ours, and ours will be yours, in close friendship.
ΛΑ. καὶ μήν, ὦ Λυσίμαχε, μὴ ἀφίεσό γε τἀνδρός· ὡς ἐγὼ καὶ ἄλλοθί γε αὐτὸν ἐθεασάμην οὐ μόνον τὸν πατέρα ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν πατρίδα ὀρθοῦντα·
Laches: And indeed, Lysimachus, do not let go of the man; for I have watched him elsewhere too, upholding not only his father but also his country.
ἐν γὰρ τῇ ἀπὸ Δηλίου φυγῇ μετʼ ἐμοῦ συνανεχώρει, κἀγώ σοι λέγω ὅτι εἰ οἱ ἄλλοι ἤθελον τοιοῦτοι εἶναι, ὀρθὴ ἂν ἡμῶν ἡ πόλις ἦν καὶ οὐκ ἂν ἔπεσε τότε τοιοῦτον πτῶμα.
For in the retreat from Delium he withdrew along with me, and I tell you that if the others had been willing to be like him, our city would have stood upright and would not have suffered such a fall at that time.
ΛΥ. ὦ Σώκρατες, οὗτος μέντοι ὁ ἔπαινός ἐστιν καλός, ὃν σὺ νῦν ἐπαινῇ ὑπʼ ἀνδρῶν ἀξίων πιστεύεσθαι καὶ εἰς ταῦτα εἰς ἃ οὗτοι ἐπαινοῦσιν.
Lysimachus: Socrates, this praise is indeed fine, which you now receive from men worthy of belief, especially in those matters for which they praise you.
εὖ οὖν ἴσθι ὅτι ἐγὼ ταῦτα ἀκούων χαίρω ὅτι εὐδοκιμεῖς, καὶ σὺ δὲ ἡγοῦ με ἐν τοῖς εὐνούστατόν σοι εἶναι.
Know well, then, that hearing this I rejoice in your good reputation, and you must count me among those who are most well-disposed to you.
χρῆν μὲν οὖν καὶ πρότερόν γε φοιτᾶν αὐτὸν παρʼ ἡμᾶς καὶ οἰκείους ἡγεῖσθαι, ὥσπερ τὸ δίκαιον· νῦν δʼ οὖν ἀπὸ τῆσδε τῆς ἡμέρας, ἐπειδὴ ἀνεγνωρίσαμεν ἀλλήλους, μὴ ἄλλως ποίει, ἀλλὰ σύνισθί τε καὶ γνώριζε καὶ ἡμᾶς καὶ τούσδε τοὺς νεωτέρους, ὅπως ἂν διασῴζητε καὶ ὑμεῖς τὴν ἡμετέραν φιλίαν.
Indeed, you ought to have visited us before and regarded us as your own, as is just; but at any rate, from this day on, since we have recognized each other, do not do otherwise, but associate with us and get to know both us and these younger ones here, so that you too may preserve our friendship.
ταῦτα μὲν οὖν καὶ σὺ ποιήσεις καὶ ἡμεῖς σε καὶ αὖθις ὑπομνήσομεν· περὶ δὲ ὧν ἠρξάμεθα τί φατε;
These things indeed you will do, and we on our part will remind you of them again; but about the matters we began with, what do you say?
τί δοκεῖ;
What do you think?
τὸ μάθημα τοῖς μειρακίοις ἐπιτήδειον εἶναι ἢ οὔ, τὸ μαθεῖν ἐν ὅπλοις μάχεσθαι;
Is the study fitting for the youths or not—namely, learning to fight in armor?
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ καὶ τούτων πέρι, ὦ Λυσίμαχε, ἔγωγε πειράσομαι συμβουλεύειν ἄν τι δύνωμαι, καὶ αὖ ἃ προκαλῇ πάντα ποιεῖν.
Socrates: Well, on these matters too, Lysimachus, I will try to advise as far as I am able, and also to do everything you invite me to do.
δικαιότατον μέντοι μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι ἐμὲ νεώτερον ὄντα τῶνδε καὶ ἀπειρότερον τούτων ἀκούειν πρότερον τί λέγουσιν καὶ μανθάνειν παρʼ αὐτῶν· ἐὰν δʼ ἔχω τι ἄλλο παρὰ τὰ ὑπὸ τούτων λεγόμενα, τότʼ ἤδη διδάσκειν καὶ πείθειν καὶ σὲ καὶ τούτους.
However, it seems most just to me that, since I am younger than these men and less experienced, I should first hear what they say and learn from them; and if I have anything else to offer contrary to what is said by them, only then should I teach and persuade both you and them.
ἀλλʼ, ὦ Νικία, τί οὐ λέγει πότερος ὑμῶν;
But, Nicias, why does not one of you two speak?
ΝΙ. ἀλλʼ οὐδὲν κωλύει, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Nicias: There is no objection, Socrates.
δοκεῖ γὰρ καὶ ἐμοὶ τοῦτο τὸ μάθημα τοῖς νέοις ὠφέλιμον εἶναι ἐπίστασθαι πολλαχῇ.
For indeed, this study seems to me also to be useful for the young to know in many ways.