§178ΛΥ. τεθέασθε μὲν τὸν ἄνδρα μαχόμενον ἐν ὅπλοις, ὦ Νικία τε καὶ Λάχης· οὗ δʼ ἕνεκα ὑμᾶς ἐκελεύσαμεν συνθεάσασθαι ἐγώ τε καὶ Μελησίας ὅδε, τότε μὲν οὐκ εἴπομεν, νῦν δʼ ἐροῦμεν.
Lysimachus: You have indeed watched the man fighting in armor, Nicias and Laches; but as for the reason why both I and Melesias here urged you to join us in watching, we did not tell you then, but now we shall.
ἡγούμεθα γὰρ χρῆναι πρός γε ὑμᾶς παρρησιάζεσθαι.
For we believe we ought to speak frankly, at least to you.
εἰσὶ γάρ τινες οἳ τῶν τοιούτων καταγελῶσι, καὶ ἐάν τις αὐτοῖς συμβουλεύσηται, οὐκ ἂν εἴποιεν ἃ νοοῦσιν, ἀλλὰ στοχαζόμενοι τοῦ συμβουλευομένου ἄλλα λέγουσι παρὰ τὴν αὑτῶν δόξαν·
For there are some who laugh at such things, and if anyone consults them, they would not say what they think, but, guessing at the wishes of the person consulting them, they say other things contrary to their own opinion.
ὑμᾶς δὲ ἡμεῖς ἡγησάμενοι καὶ ἱκανοὺς γνῶναι καὶ γνόντας ἁπλῶς ἂν εἰπεῖν ἃ δοκεῖ ὑμῖν, οὕτω παρελάβομεν ἐπὶ τὴν συμβουλὴν περὶ ὧν μέλλομεν ἀνακοινοῦσθαι.
But because we believed that you are both competent to judge, and, having judged, would speak plainly what you think, we have thus brought you in for advice on the matters we are about to communicate.
§179ΛΥ. ἔστιν οὖν τοῦτο, περὶ οὗ πάλαι τοσαῦτα προοιμιάζομαι, τόδε.
Lysimachus: Now, this is the thing about which I have been making such a long preface: it is this.
ἡμῖν εἰσὶν ὑεῖς οὑτοιί, ὅδε μὲν τοῦδε, πάππου ἔχων ὄνομα Θουκυδίδης, ἐμὸς δὲ αὖ ὅδε—παππῷον δὲ καὶ οὗτος ὄνομʼ ἔχει τοὐμοῦ πατρός·
We have these sons here; this one belongs to Melesias here, bearing his grandfather's name, Thucydides, and this other is mine, and he too has his grandfather's name, that of my father; for we call him Aristides.
Ἀριστείδην γὰρ αὐτὸν καλοῦμεν—ἡμῖν οὖν τούτων δέδοκται ἐπιμεληθῆναι ὡς οἷόν τε μάλιστα, καὶ μὴ ποιῆσαι ὅπερ οἱ πολλοί, ἐπειδὴ μειράκια γέγονεν, ἀνεῖναι αὐτοὺς ὅτι βούλονται ποιεῖν, ἀλλὰ νῦν δὴ καὶ ἄρχεσθαι αὐτῶν ἐπιμελεῖσθαι καθʼ ὅσον οἷοί τʼ ἐσμέν.
Now, we have resolved to take the greatest possible care of them, and not to do what the majority of people do—letting them off to do whatever they please once they have become youths—but indeed to begin caring for them even now, as far as we are able.
εἰδότες οὖν καὶ ὑμῖν ὑεῖς ὄντας ἡγησάμεθα μεμεληκέναι περὶ αὐτῶν, εἴπερ τισὶν ἄλλοις, πῶς ἂν θεραπευθέντες γένοιντο ἄριστοι· εἰ δʼ ἄρα πολλάκις μὴ προσεσχήκατε τὸν νοῦν τῷ τοιούτῳ, ὑπομνήσοντες ὅτι οὐ χρὴ αὐτοῦ ἀμελεῖν, καὶ παρακαλοῦντες ὑμᾶς ἐπὶ τὸ ἐπιμέλειάν τινα ποιήσασθαι τῶν ὑέων κοινῇ μεθʼ ἡμῶν.
Knowing, then, that you also have sons, we thought that you, if anyone, must have considered how they might become the best by being trained; but if by chance you have not often turned your mind to such a matter, we wish to remind you that one must not neglect it, and to invite you to join us in taking some care of our sons.
ὅθεν δὲ ἡμῖν ταῦτʼ ἔδοξεν, ὦ Νικία τε καὶ Λάχης, χρὴ ἀκοῦσαι, κἂν ᾖ ὀλίγῳ μακρότερα.
But from what source this seemed good to us, Nicias and Laches, you must hear, even if it is a little longer.
συσσιτοῦμεν γὰρ δὴ ἐγώ τε καὶ Μελησίας ὅδε, καὶ ἡμῖν τὰ μειράκια παρασιτεῖ.
For Melesias here and I share our meals, and the youths eat with us.
ὅπερ οὖν καὶ ἀρχόμενος εἶπον τοῦ λόγου, παρρησιασόμεθα πρὸς ὑμᾶς.
So, as I said at the beginning of my talk, we will speak frankly to you.
ἡμῶν γὰρ ἑκάτερος περὶ τοῦ ἑαυτοῦ πατρὸς πολλὰ καὶ καλὰ ἔργα ἔχει λέγειν πρὸς τοὺς νεανίσκους, καὶ ὅσα ἐν πολέμῳ ἠργάσαντο καὶ ὅσα ἐν εἰρήνῃ, διοικοῦντες τά τε τῶν συμμάχων καὶ τὰ τῆσδε τῆς πόλεως· ἡμέτερα δʼ αὐτῶν ἔργα οὐδέτερος ἔχει λέγειν.
For each of us has many fine deeds of his own father to tell to the youths, both what they performed in war and what in peace, in managing the affairs both of the allies and of this city; but neither of us has any deeds of our own to tell.
ταῦτα δὴ ὑπαισχυνόμεθά τε τούσδε καὶ αἰτιώμεθα τοὺς πατέρας ἡμῶν ὅτι ἡμᾶς μὲν εἴων τρυφᾶν, ἐπειδὴ μειράκια ἐγενόμεθα, τὰ δὲ τῶν ἄλλων πράγματα ἔπραττον·
This we are indeed ashamed of before these boys, and we blame our fathers because they allowed us to live in luxury when we became youths, while they busy themselves with the affairs of others.
καὶ τοῖσδε τοῖς νεανίσκοις αὐτὰ ταῦτα ἐνδεικνύμεθα, λέγοντες ὅτι εἰ μὲν ἀμελήσουσιν ἑαυτῶν καὶ μὴ πείσονται ἡμῖν, ἀκλεεῖς γενήσονται, εἰ δʼ ἐπιμελήσονται, τάχʼ ἂν τῶν ὀνομάτων ἄξιοι γένοιντο ἃ ἔχουσιν.
And we point out these very things to these youths, telling them that if they neglect themselves and do not obey us, they will become nameless, but if they take care of themselves, they might soon become worthy of the names they bear.
οὗτοι μὲν οὖν φασιν πείσεσθαι· ἡμεῖς δὲ δὴ τοῦτο σκοποῦμεν, τί ἂν οὗτοι μαθόντες ἢ ἐπιτηδεύσαντες ὅτι ἄριστοι γένοιντο.
They, then, say they will obey; and we on our part are considering this: what they might learn or practice to become the best possible.
εἰσηγήσατο οὖν τις ἡμῖν καὶ τοῦτο τὸ μάθημα, ὅτι καλὸν εἴη τῷ νέῳ μαθεῖν ἐν ὅπλοις μάχεσθαι· καὶ ἐπῄνει τοῦτον ὃν νῦν ὑμεῖς ἐθεάσασθε ἐπιδεικνύμενον, κᾆτʼ ἐκέλευε θεάσασθαι.
Now someone suggested to us this very branch of study, that it would be a fine thing for a young man to learn to fight in armor; and he praised this man whom you have just watched demonstrating, and then urged us to watch him.
ἔδοξε δὴ χρῆναι αὐτούς τε ἐλθεῖν ἐπὶ θέαν τἀνδρὸς καὶ ὑμᾶς συμπαραλαβεῖν ἅμα μὲν συνθεατάς, ἅμα δὲ συμβούλους τε καὶ κοινωνούς, ἐὰν βούλησθε, περὶ τῆς τῶν ὑέων ἐπιμελείας.
So we thought we ought to go to the exhibition of the man ourselves, and to bring you along both as fellow-spectators and, if you are willing, as advisers and partners in the care of our sons.