§132εἰς Διονυσίου τοῦ γραμματιστοῦ εἰσῆλθον, καὶ εἶδον αὐτόθι τῶν τε νέων τοὺς ἐπιεικεστάτους δοκοῦντας εἶναι τὴν ἰδέαν καὶ πατέρων εὐδοκίμων, καὶ τούτων ἐραστάς.
I went into the school of Dionysius the teacher of letters, and saw there those of the youths who were considered to be the most refined in appearance and of reputable fathers, and their lovers.
ἐτυγχανέτην οὖν δύο τῶν μειρακίων ἐρίζοντε, περὶ ὅτου δέ, οὐ σφόδρα κατήκουον.
It happened that two of the youths were disputing, but about what, I did not quite catch.
ἐφαινέσθην μέντοι ἢ περὶ Ἀναξαγόρου ἢ περὶ Οἰνοπίδου ἐρίζειν· κύκλους γοῦν γράφειν ἐφαινέσθην καὶ ἐγκλίσεις τινὰς ἐμιμοῦντο τοῖν χεροῖν ἐπικλίνοντε καὶ μάλʼ ἐσπουδακότε.
However, they seemed to be disputing either about Anaxagoras or about Oenopides; at any rate, they seemed to be drawing circles, and they were imitating certain inclinations with their hands, bending them and being very earnest.
κἀγώ—καθήμην γὰρ παρὰ τὸν ἐραστὴν τοῦ ἑτέρου αὐτοῖν—κινήσας οὖν αὐτὸν τῷ ἀγκῶνι ἠρόμην ὅτι ποτὲ οὕτως ἐσπουδακότε τὼ μειρακίω εἴτην, καὶ εἶπον· ἦ που μέγα τι καὶ καλόν ἐστι περὶ ὃ τοσαύτην σπουδὴν πεποιημένω ἐστόν; ὁ δʼ εἶπε, ποῖον, ἔφη, μέγα καὶ καλόν;
And I—for I was sitting next to the lover of one of them—nudging him with my elbow, asked him why on earth the two youths were so earnest, and said: "Surely it is something great and beautiful about which they have made such great earnestness?" And he said: "What do you mean, great and beautiful?
ἀδολεσχοῦσι μὲν οὖν οὗτοί γε περὶ τῶν μετεώρων καὶ φλυαροῦσι φιλοσοφοῦντες. καὶ ἐγὼ θαυμάσας αὐτοῦ τὴν ἀπόκρισιν εἶπον· ὦ νεανία, αἰσχρὸν δοκεῖ σοι εἶναι τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν;
They are merely babbling about the heavenly bodies and talking nonsense, playing at philosophy." And I, wondering at his answer, said: "Young man, does it seem to you to be shameful to practice philosophy?
ἢ τί οὕτως χαλεπῶς λέγεις; καὶ ὁ ἕτερος—πλησίον γὰρ καθήμενος ἐτύγχανεν αὐτοῦ, ἀντεραστὴς ὤν—ἀκούσας ἐμοῦ τε ἐρομένου κἀκείνου ἀποκρινομένου, οὐ πρὸς σοῦ γε, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ποιεῖς τὸ καὶ ἀνερέσθαι τοῦτον εἰ αἰσχρὸν ἡγεῖται φιλοσοφίαν εἶναι.
Or why do you speak so harshly?" And the other—for he happened to be sitting near him, being his rival in love—hearing me ask and him answering, said: "It is not like you, Socrates, to do this, to ask this man further whether he thinks philosophy is shameful.
ἢ οὐκ οἶσθα τοῦτον ὅτι τραχηλιζόμενος καὶ ἐμπιμπλάμενος καὶ καθεύδων πάντα τὸν βίον διατετέλεκεν;
Or do you not know that he has spent his whole life being throttled in wrestling, stuffing himself, and sleeping?
ὥστε σὺ τί αὐτὸν ᾤου ἀποκρινεῖσθαι ἀλλʼ ἢ ὅτι αἰσχρόν ἐστι φιλοσοφία; ἦν δὲ οὗτος μὲν τοῖν ἐρασταῖν περὶ μουσικὴν διατετριφώς, ὁ δʼ ἕτερος, ὃν ἐλοιδόρει, περὶ γυμναστικήν.
So what did you expect him to answer except that philosophy is shameful?" Now this one of the lovers had spent his time in music, while the other, whom he was reviling, had spent it in gymnastics.
καί μοι ἔδοξε χρῆναι τὸν μὲν ἕτερον ἀφιέναι, τὸν ἐρωτώμενον, ὅτι οὐδʼ αὐτὸς προσεποιεῖτο περὶ λόγων ἔμπειρος εἶναι ἀλλὰ περὶ ἔργων, τὸν δὲ σοφώτερον προσποιούμενον εἶναι διερωτῆσαι, ἵνα καὶ εἴ τι δυναίμην παρʼ αὐτοῦ ὠφεληθείην.
And it seemed to me that I should let the other one go, the one who was questioned, since he himself did not even pretend to be experienced in words but in deeds, and that I should question the one who pretended to be wiser, so that if I could, I might be benefited by him.
εἶπον οὖν ὅτι εἰς κοινὸν μὲν τὸ ἐρώτημα ἠρόμην· εἰ δὲ σὺ οἴει τοῦδε κάλλιον ἂν ἀποκρίνασθαι, σὲ ἐρωτῶ τὸ αὐτὸ ὅπερ καὶ τοῦτον, εἰ δοκεῖ σοι τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν καλὸν εἶναι ἢ οὔ. §133σχεδὸν οὖν ταῦτα λεγόντων ἡμῶν ἐπακούσαντε τὼ μειρακίω ἐσιγησάτην, καὶ αὐτὼ παυσαμένω τῆς ἔριδος ἡμῶν ἀκροαταὶ ἐγενέσθην.
So I said: "I asked the question as a common one; but if you think you can answer better than him, I ask you the same thing as I did him: does it seem to you that practicing philosophy is beautiful, or not?" Just as we were saying this, the two youths, having overheard us, fell silent, and having themselves stopped their dispute, became our listeners.
καὶ ὅτι μὲν οἱ ἐρασταὶ ἔπαθον οὐκ οἶδα, αὐτὸς δʼ οὖν ἐξεπλάγην· ἀεὶ γάρ ποτε ὑπὸ τῶν νέων τε καὶ καλῶν ἐκπλήττομαι.
And what the lovers felt, I do not know, but I myself was astonished; for I am always astonished by the young and beautiful.
ἐδόκει μέντοι μοι καὶ ὁ ἕτερος οὐχ ἧττον ἐμοῦ ἀγωνιᾶν· οὐ μὴν ἀλλʼ ἀπεκρίνατό γέ μοι καὶ μάλα φιλοτίμως.
However, the other one seemed to me to be no less anxious than I; nevertheless, he answered me, and very competitively.
ὁπότε γάρ τοι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν αἰσχρὸν ἡγησαίμην εἶναι, οὐδʼ ἂν ἄνθρωπον νομίσαιμι ἐμαυτὸν εἶναι, οὐδʼ ἄλλον τὸν οὕτω διακείμενον, ἐνδεικνύμενος εἰς τὸν ἀντεραστήν, καὶ λέγων μεγάλῃ τῇ φωνῇ, ἵνʼ αὐτοῦ κατακούοι τὰ παιδικά.
"Whenever, Socrates," he said, "I should consider practicing philosophy to be shameful, I would not even think myself to be a human being, nor anyone else who is so disposed," pointing to his rival in love, and speaking with a loud voice, so that his favorite boy might hear him.
καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον, καλὸν ἄρα δοκεῖ σοι τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν; πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
And I said: "Does practicing philosophy then seem beautiful to you?" "Very much so," he said.
τί οὖν, ἐγὼ ἔφην· ἦ δοκεῖ σοι οἷόν τʼ εἶναι εἰδέναι πρᾶγμα ὁτιοῦν εἴτε καλὸν εἴτε αἰσχρόν ἐστιν, ὃ μὴ εἰδείη τις τὴν ἀρχὴν ὅτι ἔστιν; οὐκ ἔφη.
"Well then," I said, "does it seem to you possible to know any matter whatsoever, whether it is beautiful or shameful, if one does not know at all in the first place what it is?" "No," he said.
οἶσθʼ ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι ἔστιν τὸ φιλοσοφεῖν; πάνυ γε, ἔφη.
"Do you know then," I said, "that practicing philosophy is indeed something?" "Certainly," he said.
τί οὖν ἔστιν; ἔφην ἐγώ.
"What then is it?" I said.
τί δʼ ἄλλο γε ἢ κατὰ τὸ Σόλωνος;
"What else indeed than according to Solon's saying?
Σόλων γάρ που εἶπε—
"
γηράσκω δʼ αἰεὶ πολλὰ διδασκόμενος· "
καὶ ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ οὕτως ἀεὶ χρῆναι ἕν γέ τι μανθάνειν τὸν μέλλοντα φιλοσοφήσειν, καὶ νεώτερον ὄντα καὶ πρεσβύτερον, ἵνʼ ὡς πλεῖστα ἐν τῷ βίῳ μάθῃ. καί μοι τὸ μὲν πρῶτον ἔδοξε τὶ εἰπεῖν, ἔπειτά πως ἐννοήσας ἠρόμην αὐτὸν εἰ τὴν φιλοσοφίαν πολυμαθίαν ἡγοῖτο.
For Solon surely said: 'And I grow old constantly learning many things.' And it seems to me too that one who intends to practice philosophy must always learn at least some one thing, both when younger and when older, so that he may learn as many things as possible in life." And to me, at first, he seemed to have said something of weight, but then, somehow reflecting, I asked him whether he considered philosophy to be polymathy.
κἀκεῖνος, πάνυ, ἔφη. ἡγῇ δὲ δὴ καλὸν εἶναι μόνον τὴν φιλοσοφίαν ἢ καὶ ἀγαθόν; ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
And he said: "Absolutely." "And do you think philosophy is only beautiful, or also good?" I said.
καὶ ἀγαθόν, ἔφη, πάνυ.
"Also good, absolutely," he said.
πότερον οὖν ἐν φιλοσοφίᾳ τι τοῦτο ἴδιον ἐνορᾷς, ἢ καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις οὕτω σοι δοκεῖ ἔχειν; οἷον φιλογυμναστίαν οὐ μόνον ἡγῇ καλὸν εἶναι, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀγαθόν; ἢ οὔ;
"Do you see this as something peculiar to philosophy, or does it seem to you to be so in other things as well?
ὁ δὲ καὶ μάλα εἰρωνικῶς εἶπε δύο· πρὸς μὲν τόνδε μοι εἰρήσθω ὅτι οὐδέτερα· πρὸς μέντοι σέ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁμολογῶ καὶ καλὸν εἶναι καὶ ἀγαθόν· ἡγοῦμαι γὰρ ὀρθῶς. ἠρώτησα οὖν ἐγώ, ἆρʼ οὖν καὶ ἐν τοῖς γυμνασίοις τὴν πολυπονίαν φιλογυμναστίαν ἡγῇ εἶναι; κἀκεῖνος ἔφη, πάνυ γε, ὥσπερ γε καὶ ἐν τῷ φιλοσοφεῖν τὴν πολυμαθίαν φιλοσοφίαν ἡγοῦμαι εἶναι. κἀγὼ εἶπον, ἡγῇ δὲ δὴ τοὺς φιλογυμναστοῦντας ἄλλου του ἐπιθυμεῖν ἢ τούτου, ὅτι ποιήσει αὐτοὺς εὖ ἔχειν τὸ σῶμα; τούτου, ἔφη.
For example, do you think love of gymnastics is not only beautiful, but also good, or not?" And he said, quite ironically: "To this man, let it be said by me that it is neither; but to you, Socrates, I admit that it is both beautiful and good; for I think so rightly." I asked then: "Do you also think that in gymnasia, love of labor is love of gymnastics?" And he said: "Certainly, just as in practicing philosophy, I think polymathy is philosophy." And I said: "And do you think those who love gymnastics desire anything else than this, namely, that which will make their body in a good condition?" "This," he said.
ἦ οὖν οἱ πολλοὶ πόνοι τὸ σῶμα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ποιοῦσιν εὖ ἔχειν;
"Is it then the many labors," I said, "that make the body in a good condition?"