§140ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἐὰν ἔμοιγε προσέχῃς τὸν νοῦν, σύν τε δύο σκεπτομένω τυχὸν εὑρήσομεν.
SOCRATES: But if you pay attention to me, two of us examining together will perhaps find it.
ΑΛ. ἀλλὰ προσέχω, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰς δύναμιν τὴν ἐμήν.
ALCIBIADES: But I am paying attention, Socrates, to the best of my ability.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὡμολογήθη ἡμῖν ὀφθαλμία μὲν πᾶσα νόσος εἶναι, νόσος μέντοι οὐκ εἶναι πᾶσα ὀφθαλμία;
SOCRATES: Was it not agreed between us that every sore eyes is an illness, but not every illness is sore eyes?
ΑΛ. ὡμολογήθη.
ALCIBIADES: It was agreed.
ΣΩ. καὶ ὀρθῶς γέ μοι δοκεῖ ὁμολογηθῆναι.
SOCRATES: And rightly, it seems to me, was it agreed.
καὶ γὰρ οἱ πυρέττοντες πάντες νοσοῦσιν, οὐ μέντοι οἱ νοσοῦντες πάντες πυρέττουσιν οὐδὲ ποδαγρῶσιν οὐδέ γε ὀφθαλμιῶσιν, οἶμαι· ἀλλὰ νόσος μὲν πᾶν τὸ τοιοῦτόν ἐστι, διαφέρειν δέ φασιν οὓς δὴ καλοῦμεν ἰατροὺς τὴν ἀπεργασίαν αὐτῶν.
For indeed, those who have a fever are all sick, yet those who are sick do not all have a fever, nor have gout, nor have sore eyes, I think; rather, everything of this sort is an illness, but those whom we call doctors say that their production differs.
οὐ γὰρ πᾶσιν οὔτε ὅμοιαι οὔτε ὁμοίως διαπράττονται, ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὴν αὑτῆς δύναμιν ἑκάστη· νόσοι μέντοι πᾶσαί εἰσιν.
For they are not similar in all cases, nor do they act in the same way, but each according to its own power; yet they are all illnesses.
ὥσπερ δημιουργούς τινας ὑπολαμβάνομεν· ἢ οὔ;
Just as we suppose there are certain craftsmen; or not?
ΑΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τοὺς σκυτοτόμους καὶ τέκτονας καὶ ἀνδριαντοποιοὺς καὶ ἑτέρους παμπληθεῖς, οὓς τί δεῖ καθʼ ἕκαστα λέγειν;
SOCRATES: Are there not shoemakers, carpenters, sculptors, and countless others, whom why is there any need to mention individually?
ἔχουσι δʼ οὖν διειληφότες δημιουργίας μέρη, καὶ πάντες οὗτοί εἰσι δημιουργοί, οὐ μέντοι εἰσὶ τέκτονές γε οὐδὲ σκυτοτόμοι οὐδʼ ἀνδριαντοποιοί, οἳ σύμπαντές εἰσι δημιουργοί.
At any rate, they have divided among themselves parts of craftsmanship, and all of these are craftsmen, yet those who are collectively craftsmen are not thereby carpenters, nor shoemakers, nor sculptors.
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. οὕτως μὲν τοίνυν καὶ τὴν ἀφροσύνην διειληφότες εἰσί, καὶ τοὺς μὲν πλεῖστον αὐτῆς μέρος ἔχοντας μαινομένους καλοῦμεν, τοὺς δʼ ὀλίγον ἔλαττον ἠλιθίους τε καὶ ἐμβροντήτους· οἱ δὲ ἐν εὐφημοτάτοις ὀνόμασι βουλόμενοι κατονομάζειν οἱ μὲν μεγαλοψύχους, οἱ δὲ εὐήθεις, ἕτεροι δὲ ἀκάκους καὶ ἀπείρους καὶ ἐνεούς· εὑρήσεις δὲ καὶ ἕτερα πολλὰ ἀναζητῶν ὀνόματα.
SOCRATES: In this way, then, they have also divided folly, and those who have the greatest part of it we call mad, and those who have a little less we call fools and simpletons; while those who want to call them by the most euphemistic names, some call them magnanimous, some simple-minded, and others innocent, inexperienced, and speechless; and you will find many other names if you search.
πάντα δὲ ταῦτα ἀφροσύνη ἐστίν, διαφέρει δέ, ὥσπερ τέχνη τέχνης ἡμῖν κατεφαίνετο καὶ νόσος νόσου· ἢ πῶς σοι δοκεῖ;
But all of these are folly, and it differs just as one art seemed to us to differ from another art, and one illness from another illness; or how does it seem to you?
ΑΛ. ἐμοὶ μὲν οὕτως.
ALCIBIADES: To me, in that way.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ἀπʼ ἐκείνου πάλιν ἐπανέλθωμεν.
SOCRATES: Let us, then, return again to that point.
ἦν γὰρ δήπου καὶ ἐν ἀρχῇ τοῦ λόγου, σκεπτέον εἶναι τοὺς ἄφρονάς τε καὶ φρονίμους, τίνες ποτʼ εἰσίν.
For indeed, at the beginning of our discussion, it was said that we must examine the foolish and the wise, who on earth they are.
ὡμολόγητο γὰρ εἶναί τινας· ἦ γὰρ οὔ;
For it was agreed that there are such people; was it not?
ΑΛ. ναί, ὡμολόγηται.
ALCIBIADES: Yes, it was agreed.
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν τούτους φρονίμους ὑπολαμβάνεις, οἳ ἂν εἰδῶσιν ἅττα δεῖ πράττειν καὶ λέγειν;
SOCRATES: Do you, then, suppose those to be wise, who know what things they ought to do and say?
ΑΛ. ἔγωγε.
ALCIBIADES: I do.
ΣΩ. ἄφρονας δὲ ποτέρους;
SOCRATES: And which of the two do you suppose to be foolish?
ἆρά γε τοὺς μηδέτερα τούτων εἰδότας;
Is it those who know neither of these things?
ΑΛ. τούτους.
ALCIBIADES: Those.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν οἵ γε μὴ εἰδότες μηδέτερα τούτων λήσουσιν αὑτοὺς καὶ λέγοντες καὶ πράττοντες ἅττα μὴ δεῖ;
SOCRATES: Will not those, then, who know neither of these things, unconsciously both say and do what they ought not?
ΑΛ. φαίνεται.
ALCIBIADES: It appears so.
§141ΣΩ. τούτων μέντοι ἔλεγον, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, καὶ τὸν Οἰδίπουν εἶναι τῶν ἀνθρώπων· εὑρήσεις δʼ ἔτι καὶ τῶν νῦν πολλοὺς οὐκ ὀργῇ κεχρημένους, ὥσπερ ἐκεῖνον, οὐδʼ οἰομένους κακά σφισιν εὔχεσθαι, ἀλλʼ ἀγαθά.
SOCRATES: Indeed, Alkibiades, I said that Oedipus also was one of these men; and you will find even now many who are not driven by anger like him, nor think they are praying for evils for themselves, but for goods.
ἐκεῖνος μὲν ὥσπερ οὐδʼ ηὔχετο, οὐδʼ ᾤετο· ἕτεροι δέ τινές εἰσιν οἳ τἀναντία τούτων πεπόνθασιν.
He, indeed, did not think he was praying for good, just as he did not really pray for it; but there are others who have experienced the opposites of these.
ἐγὼ μὲν γὰρ οἶμαί σε πρῶτον, εἴ σοι ἐμφανὴς γενόμενος ὁ θεὸς πρὸς ὃν τυγχάνεις πορευόμενος, ἐρωτήσειεν, πρὶν ὁτιοῦν εὔξασθαί σε, εἰ ἐξαρκέσει σοι τύραννον γενέσθαι τῆς Ἀθηναίων πόλεως· εἰ δὲ τοῦτο φαῦλον ἡγήσαιο καὶ μὴ μέγα τι, προσθείη καὶ πάντων τῶν Ἑλλήνων· εἰ δέ σε ὁρῴη ἔτι ἔλαττον δοκοῦντα ἔχειν, εἰ μὴ καὶ πάσης Εὐρώπης, ὑποσταίη σοι καὶ τοῦτο, καὶ τοῦτο μὴ μόνον ὑποσταίη, ἀλλʼ αὐθημερόν σου βουλομένου ὡς πάντας αἰσθήσεσθαι ὅτι Ἀλκιβιάδης ὁ Κλεινίου τύραννός ἐστιν· αὐτὸν οἶμαι ἄν σε ἀπιέναι περιχαρῆ γενόμενον, ὡς τῶν μεγίστων ἀγαθῶν κεκυρηκότα.
For I think that you first of all, if the god to whom you happen to be going should appear to you, and should ask you, before you pray for anything at all, whether it would satisfy you to become tyrant of the city of the Athenians; and if you should think this paltry and not something great, he should add also that of all the Greeks; and if he should see you thinking you still have too little unless you also had that of all Europe, he should promise you this as well, and not only promise this, but on that very day, if you wished, all would perceive that Alkibiades, the son of Kleinias, is tyrant; I think you would go away overjoyed, as having obtained the greatest goods.
ΑΛ. ἐγὼ μὲν οἶμαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, κἂν ἄλλον ὁντινοῦν, εἴπερ τοιαῦτα συμβαίη αὐτῷ.
ALCIBIADES: I think, Socrates, that anyone else would too, if such things should happen to him.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μέντοι ἀντί γε τῆς σῆς ψυχῆς οὐδʼ ἂν τὴν πάντων Ἑλλήνων τε καὶ βαρβάρων χώραν τε καὶ τυραννίδα βουληθείης σοι γενέσθαι.
SOCRATES: But indeed, in exchange for your life, you would not wish either the land or the tyranny of all Greeks and barbarians to become yours.
ΑΛ. οὐκ οἶμαι ἔγωγε.
ALCIBIADES: I think not.
πῶς γὰρ ἄν, μηθέν γέ τι μέλλων αὐτοῖς χρήσεσθαι;
For how could I, when I am not going to make any use of them?
ΣΩ. τί δʼ εἰ μέλλοις κακῶς τε καὶ βλαβερῶς χρῆσθαι;
SOCRATES: What if you were going to use them badly and harmfully?
οὐδʼ ἂν οὕτως;
Not even in that case?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ὁρᾷς οὖν ὡς οὐκ ἀσφαλὲς οὔτε τὰ διδόμενα εἰκῇ δέχεσθαί τε οὔτε αὐτὸν εὔχεσθαι γενέσθαι, εἴ γέ τις βλάπτεσθαι μέλλοι διὰ ταῦτα ἢ τὸ παράπαν τοῦ βίου ἀπαλλαγῆναι.
SOCRATES: You see, then, how it is not safe either to accept what is given at random, or to pray for things to happen to oneself, if indeed one is going to be harmed on account of these things, or to be deprived of life altogether.
πολλοὺς δʼ ἂν ἔχοιμεν εἰπεῖν, ὅσοι τυραννίδος ἐπιθυμήσαντες ἤδη καὶ σπουδάσαντες τοῦτʼ αὐτοῖς παραγενέσθαι, ὡς ἀγαθόν τι πράξαντες, διὰ τὴν τυραννίδα ἐπιβουλευθέντες τὸν βίον ἀφῃρέθησαν.
And we could mention many who, having desired tyranny and having striven for it to come to them, as if they had achieved some good thing, were plotted against and deprived of their lives because of that tyranny.
οἶμαι δέ σε οὐκ ἀνήκοον εἶναι ἔνιά γε
"χθιζά τε καὶ πρωιζὰ"
γεγενημένα, ὅτε Ἀρχέλαον τὸν Μακεδόνων τύραννον τὰ παιδικά, ἐρασθέντα τῆς τυραννίδος οὐθὲν ἧττον ἤπερ ἐκεῖνος τῶν παιδικῶν, ἀπέκτεινε τὸν ἐραστὴν ὡς τύραννός τε καὶ εὐδαίμων ἀνὴρ ἐσόμενος· κατασχὼν δὲ τρεῖς ἢ τέτταρας ἡμέρας τὴν τυραννίδα πάλιν αὐτὸς ἐπιβουλευθεὶς ὑφʼ ἑτέρων τινῶν ἐτελεύτησεν.
And I think you are not unheard of some things that happened "yesterday or the day before," when the favorite of Archelaos, the tyrant of the Macedonians—having fallen in love with the tyranny no less than Archelaos had with his favorite—killed his lover, thinking that he would be a tyrant and a happy man; but having held the tyranny for three or four days, he was in turn plotted against by some others and died.