§110ΣΩ. καλῶς λέγεις.
SOCRATES: Well said.
ἔχεις οὖν εἰπεῖν τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον ὅτε οὐκ ᾤου εἰδέναι τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ ἄδικα;
Can you then tell me this time when you did not think you knew what is just and what is unjust?
φέρε, πέρυσιν ἐζήτεις τε καὶ οὐκ ᾤου εἰδέναι;
Come, did you search last year and not think you knew?
ἢ ᾤου;
Or did you think you knew?
καὶ τἀληθῆ ἀποκρίνου, ἵνα μὴ μάτην οἱ διάλογοι γίγνωνται.
And answer the truth, so that our dialogues may not be in vain.
ΑΛ. ἀλλʼ ᾤμην εἰδέναι.
ALCIBIADES: No, I thought I knew.
ΣΩ. τρίτον δʼ ἔτος καὶ τέταρτον καὶ πέμπτον οὐχ οὕτως;
SOCRATES: And the third year back, and the fourth, and the fifth, was it not the same?
ΑΛ. ἔγωγε.
ALCIBIADES: It was.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν τό γε πρὸ τοῦ παῖς ἦσθα.
SOCRATES: But indeed, before that you were a child.
ἦ γάρ;
Were you not?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. τότε μὲν τοίνυν εὖ οἶδα ὅτι ᾤου εἰδέναι.
SOCRATES: Then, I know well that at that time you thought you knew.
ΑΛ. πῶς εὖ οἶσθα;
ALCIBIADES: How do you know that well?
ΣΩ. πολλάκις σοῦ ἐν διδασκάλων ἤκουον παιδὸς ὄντος καὶ ἄλλοθι, καὶ ὁπότε ἀστραγαλίζοις ἢ ἄλλην τινὰ παιδιὰν παίζοις, οὐχ ὡς ἀποροῦντος περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων, ἀλλὰ μάλα μέγα καὶ θαρραλέως λέγοντος περὶ ὅτου τύχοις τῶν παίδων ὡς πονηρός τε καὶ ἄδικος εἴη καὶ ὡς ἀδικοῖ·
SOCRATES: Many times I heard you in the teachers' houses when you were a child and elsewhere, and whenever you played dice or any other game, not as one in doubt about the just and unjust, but speaking very loudly and boldly about whichever of the children it might be, saying that he was bad and unjust, and that he was doing wrong.
ἢ οὐκ ἀληθῆ λέγω;
Or am I not speaking the truth?
ΑΛ. ἀλλὰ τί ἔμελλον ποιεῖν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁπότε τίς με ἀδικοῖ;
ALCIBIADES: But what was I to do, Socrates, whenever someone did me wrong?
ΣΩ. σὺ δʼ εἰ τύχοις ἀγνοῶν εἴτʼ ἀδικοῖο εἴτε μὴ τότε, λέγεις, τί σε χρὴ ποιεῖν;
SOCRATES: But if you happened to be ignorant at that time whether you were being wronged or not, do you say what you ought to do?
ΑΛ. μὰ Δίʼ ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἠγνόουν ἔγωγε, ἀλλὰ σαφῶς ἐγίγνωσκον ὅτι ἠδικούμην.
ALCIBIADES: By Zeus, no, I was not ignorant; rather, I knew clearly that I was being wronged.
ΣΩ. ὤιου ἄρα ἐπίστασθαι καὶ παῖς ὤν, ὡς ἔοικε, τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ ἄδικα.
SOCRATES: You thought, then, that you knew even when you were a child, as it seems, what is just and what is unjust.
ΑΛ. ἔγωγε· καὶ ἠπιστάμην γε.
ALCIBIADES: I did; and indeed I knew.
ΣΩ. ἐν ποίῳ χρόνῳ ἐξευρών;
SOCRATES: At what time did you find it out?
οὐ γὰρ δήπου ἐν ᾧ γε ᾤου εἰδέναι.
For it was certainly not when you thought you knew.
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. πότε οὖν ἀγνοεῖν ἡγοῦ;
SOCRATES: When, then, did you think you were ignorant?
σκόπει· οὐ γὰρ εὑρήσεις τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον.
Consider; for you will not find this time.
ΑΛ. μὰ τὸν Δίʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὔκουν ἔχω γʼ εἰπεῖν.
ALCIBIADES: By Zeus, Socrates, I certainly cannot say.
ΣΩ. εὑρὼν μὲν ἄρʼ οὐκ οἶσθα αὐτά.
SOCRATES: So then, you do not know these things by having found them out.
ΑΛ. οὐ πάνυ φαίνομαι.
ALCIBIADES: It appears not at all.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν ἄρτι γε οὐδὲ μαθὼν ἔφησθα εἰδέναι· εἰ δὲ μήθʼ ηὗρες μήτʼ ἔμαθες, πῶς οἶσθα καὶ πόθεν;
SOCRATES: But indeed you said just now that you did not know by having learned them either; but if you neither found them out nor learned them, how do you know them, and from where?
ΑΛ. ἀλλʼ ἴσως τοῦτό σοι οὐκ ὀρθῶς ἀπεκρινάμην, τὸ φάναι εἰδέναι αὐτὸς ἐξευρών.
ALCIBIADES: But perhaps I did not answer you correctly in saying that I knew them by having found them out myself.
ΣΩ. τὸ δὲ πῶς εἶχεν;
SOCRATES: Then how was it?
ΑΛ. ἔμαθον οἶμαι καὶ ἐγὼ ὥσπερ καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι.
ALCIBIADES: I learned them, I think, just as the others did.
ΣΩ. πάλιν εἰς τὸν αὐτὸν ἥκομεν λόγον.
SOCRATES: We have come back to the same argument.
παρὰ τοῦ;
From whom?
φράζε κἀμοί.
Tell me too.
ΑΛ. παρὰ τῶν πολλῶν.
ALCIBIADES: From the many.
ΣΩ. οὐκ εἰς σπουδαίους γε διδασκάλους καταφεύγεις εἰς τοὺς πολλοὺς ἀναφέρων.
SOCRATES: You do not flee to serious teachers by referring to the many.
ΑΛ. τί δέ;
ALCIBIADES: Why?
οὐχ ἱκανοὶ διδάξαι οὗτοι;
Are they not capable of teaching?
ΣΩ. οὔκουν τὰ πεττευτικά γε καὶ τὰ μή· καίτοι φαυλότερα αὐτὰ οἶμαι τῶν δικαίων εἶναι.
SOCRATES: Not even how to play draughts and how not to; and yet I think these are trivial things compared to what is just.
τί δέ;
What do you think?
σὺ οὐχ οὕτως οἴει;
Do you not think so?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. εἶτα τὰ μὲν φαυλότερα οὐχ οἷοί τε διδάσκειν, τὰ δὲ σπουδαιότερα;
SOCRATES: Then are they unable to teach the trivial things, but able to teach the more serious?
ΑΛ. οἶμαι ἔγωγε· ἄλλα γοῦν πολλὰ οἷοί τʼ εἰσὶν διδάσκειν σπουδαιότερα τοῦ πεττεύειν.
ALCIBIADES: I think so; at least they are capable of teaching many other things more serious than playing draughts.
ΣΩ. ποῖα ταῦτα;
SOCRATES: What kind of things are these?
§111ΑΛ. οἷον καὶ τὸ ἑλληνίζειν παρὰ τούτων ἔγωγʼ ἔμαθον, καὶ οὐκ ἂν ἔχοιμι εἰπεῖν ἐμαυτοῦ διδάσκαλον, ἀλλʼ εἰς τοὺς αὐτοὺς ἀναφέρω οὓς σὺ φῂς οὐ σπουδαίους εἶναι διδασκάλους.
ALCIBIADES: For instance, I learned to speak Greek from them, and I could not name my own teacher, but I refer to the very same people whom you say are not serious teachers.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ, ὦ γενναῖε, τούτου μὲν ἀγαθοὶ διδάσκαλοι οἱ πολλοί, καὶ δικαίως ἐπαινοῖντʼ ἂν αὐτῶν εἰς διδασκαλίαν.
SOCRATES: But, my noble friend, of this the many are good teachers, and they would justly be praised for their teaching.
ΑΛ. τί δή;
ALCIBIADES: Why so?
ΣΩ. ὅτι ἔχουσι περὶ αὐτὰ ἃ χρὴ τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς διδασκάλους ἔχειν.
SOCRATES: Because they possess concerning these things what good teachers ought to possess.
ΑΛ. τί τοῦτο λέγεις;
ALCIBIADES: What do you mean by this?
ΣΩ. οὐκ οἶσθʼ ὅτι χρὴ τοὺς μέλλοντας διδάσκειν ὁτιοῦν αὐτοὺς πρῶτον εἰδέναι;
SOCRATES: Do you not know that those who are going to teach anything must first know it themselves?
ἢ οὔ;
Or not?
ΑΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ALCIBIADES: How could they not?
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τοὺς εἰδότας ὁμολογεῖν τε ἀλλήλοις καὶ μὴ διαφέρεσθαι;
SOCRATES: And must not those who know agree with one another and not differ?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἐν οἷς δʼ ἂν διαφέρωνται, ταῦτα φήσεις εἰδέναι αὐτούς;
SOCRATES: But will you say that they know those things about which they differ?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. τούτων οὖν διδάσκαλοι πῶς ἂν εἶεν;
SOCRATES: How, then, could they be teachers of these things?
ΑΛ. οὐδαμῶς.
ALCIBIADES: In no way.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν;
SOCRATES: What then?
δοκοῦσί σοι διαφέρεσθαι οἱ πολλοὶ ποῖόν ἐστι λίθος ἢ ξύλον;
Do the many seem to you to differ about what sort of thing stone or wood is?
καὶ ἐάν τινα ἐρωτᾷς, ἆρʼ οὐ τὰ αὐτὰ ὁμολογοῦσιν, καὶ ἐπὶ ταὐτὰ ὁρμῶσιν ὅταν βούλωνται λαβεῖν λίθον ἢ ξύλον; ὡσαύτως καὶ πάνθʼ ὅσα τοιαῦτα·
And if you ask anyone, do they not agree on the same things, and do they not rush for the same things when they want to take stone or wood?
σχεδὸν γάρ τι μανθάνω τὸ ἑλληνίζειν ἐπίστασθαι ὅτι τοῦτο λέγεις·
And likewise in all such things; for I nearly understand that you mean knowing how to speak Greek is this.
ἢ οὔ;
Or not?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν εἰς μὲν ταῦθʼ, ὥσπερ εἴπομεν, ἀλλήλοις τε ὁμολογοῦσι καὶ αὐτοὶ ἑαυτοῖς ἰδίᾳ, καὶ δημοσίᾳ αἱ πόλεις πρὸς ἀλλήλας οὐκ ἀμφισβητοῦσιν αἱ μὲν ταῦθʼ αἱ δʼ ἄλλα φάσκουσαι;
SOCRATES: Do they not, then, regarding these things, as we said, agree with one another, and each with himself individually, and publicly do not cities dispute with one another, some saying one thing and some another?
ΑΛ. οὐ γάρ.
ALCIBIADES: Indeed they do not.
ΣΩ. εἰκότως ἂν ἄρα τούτων γε καὶ διδάσκαλοι εἶεν ἀγαθοί.
SOCRATES: Naturally, then, they would be good teachers of these.
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν εἰ μὲν βουλοίμεθα ποιῆσαί τινα περὶ αὐτῶν εἰδέναι, ὀρθῶς ἂν αὐτὸν πέμποιμεν εἰς διδασκαλίαν τούτων τῶν πολλῶν;
SOCRATES: If, then, we wished to make someone know about them, we would rightly send him to the teaching of these many?
ΑΛ. πάνυ γε.
ALCIBIADES: Quite so.
ΣΩ. τί δʼ εἰ βουληθεῖμεν εἰδέναι, μὴ μόνον ποῖοι ἄνθρωποί εἰσιν ἢ ποῖοι ἵπποι, ἀλλὰ καὶ τίνες αὐτῶν δρομικοί τε καὶ μή, ἆρʼ ἔτι οἱ πολλοὶ τοῦτο ἱκανοὶ διδάξαι;
SOCRATES: But what if we wished to know, not only what sort of things men are or what sort of things horses are, but also which of them are runners and which not, would the many still be capable of teaching this?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἱκανὸν δέ σοι τεκμήριον ὅτι οὐκ ἐπίστανται οὐδὲ κρήγυοι διδάσκαλοί εἰσιν τούτων, ἐπειδὴ οὐδὲν ὁμολογοῦσιν ἑαυτοῖς περὶ αὐτῶν;
SOCRATES: And is it a sufficient proof to you that they do not know and are not good teachers of these things, since they do not agree with themselves about them?
ΑΛ. ἔμοιγε.
ALCIBIADES: To me it is.
ΣΩ. τί δʼ εἰ βουληθεῖμεν εἰδέναι, μὴ μόνον ποῖοι ἄνθρωποί εἰσιν, ἀλλʼ ὁποῖοι ὑγιεινοὶ ἢ νοσώδεις, ἆρʼ ἱκανοὶ ἂν ἡμῖν ἦσαν διδάσκαλοι οἱ πολλοί;
SOCRATES: And what if we wished to know, not only what sort of things men are, but also what sort of them are healthy or diseased, would the many be capable teachers for us?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἦν δʼ ἄν σοι τεκμήριον ὅτι μοχθηροί εἰσι τούτων διδάσκαλοι, εἰ ἑώρας αὐτοὺς διαφερομένους;
SOCRATES: And would it be a proof to you that they are bad teachers of these things if you saw them differing?
ΑΛ. ἔμοιγε.
ALCIBIADES: To me it would.