Humanitext Reader

Plato · Symposium §201

Eros Lacking Beauty and Good: Diotima's Teachings

Passage 21 of 36 · Greek

Summary

Socrates leads Agathon to agree that Eros lacks beauty and consequently lacks goodness as well, and begins to relate the teachings on Eros he once heard from Diotima, a woman of Mantinea.

§201ναί, φάναι.
"Yes," he said.
ἐπὶ δὴ τούτοις ἀναμνήσθητι τίνων ἔφησθα ἐν τῷ λόγῳ εἶναι τὸν ἔρωτα· εἰ δὲ βούλει, ἐγώ σε ἀναμνήσω.
"Now, on these agreements, recall of what things you said in your speech Eros is; and if you wish, I will remind you.
οἶμαι γάρ σε οὑτωσί πως εἰπεῖν, ὅτι τοῖς θεοῖς κατεσκευάσθη τὰ πράγματα διʼ ἔρωτα καλῶν· αἰσχρῶν γὰρ οὐκ εἴη ἔρως.
For I think you spoke somewhat in this way, that for the gods affairs were arranged through the love of beautiful things; for there could be no love of ugly things.
οὐχ οὑτωσί πως ἔλεγες; εἶπον γάρ, φάναι τὸν Ἀγάθωνα.
Did you not speak somewhat in this way?" "I did indeed say so," said Agathon.
καὶ ἐπιεικῶς γε λέγεις, ὦ ἑταῖρε, φάναι τὸν Σωκράτη· καὶ εἰ τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχει, ἄλλο τι ὁ Ἔρως κάλλους ἂν εἴη ἔρως, αἴσχους δὲ οὔ; ὡμολόγει.
"And you speak quite rightly, my friend," said Socrates; "and if this is so, is it not the case that Eros would be love of beauty, and not of ugliness?" He agreed.
οὐκοῦν ὡμολόγηται, οὗ ἐνδεής ἐστι καὶ μὴ ἔχει, τούτου ἐρᾶν; ναί, εἰπεῖν.
"Then is it not agreed that he loves that which he is in want of and does not have?" "Yes," he said.
ἐνδεὴς ἄρʼ ἐστὶ καὶ οὐκ ἔχει ὁ Ἔρως κάλλος. ἀνάγκη, φάναι.
"Then Eros is in want of beauty and does not have it." "Necessarily so," he said.
τί δέ;
"What then?
τὸ ἐνδεὲς κάλλους καὶ μηδαμῇ κεκτημένον κάλλος ἆρα λέγεις σὺ καλὸν εἶναι; οὐ δῆτα. ἔτι οὖν ὁμολογεῖς ἔρωτα καλὸν εἶναι, εἰ ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχει; καὶ τὸν Ἀγάθωνα εἰπεῖν κινδυνεύω, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐδὲν εἰδέναι ὧν τότε εἶπον. καὶ μὴν καλῶς γε εἶπες, φάναι, ὦ Ἀγάθων.
Do you say that that which is in want of beauty and in no way possesses beauty is beautiful?" "Certainly not." "Do you then still agree that Eros is beautiful, if these things are so?" And Agathon said: "I risk, Socrates, knowing nothing of the things I said then." "And yet you spoke beautifully, Agathon," he said.
ἀλλὰ σμικρὸν ἔτι εἰπέ· τἀγαθὰ οὐ καὶ καλὰ δοκεῖ σοι εἶναι; ἔμοιγε. εἰ ἄρα ὁ Ἔρως τῶν καλῶν ἐνδεής ἐστι, τὰ δὲ ἀγαθὰ καλά, κἂν τῶν ἀγαθῶν ἐνδεὴς εἴη. ἐγώ, φάναι, ὦ Σώκρατες, σοὶ οὐκ ἂν δυναίμην ἀντιλέγειν, ἀλλʼ οὕτως ἐχέτω ὡς σὺ λέγεις. οὐ μὲν οὖν τῇ ἀληθείᾳ, φάναι, ὦ φιλούμενε Ἀγάθων, δύνασαι ἀντιλέγειν, ἐπεὶ Σωκράτει γε οὐδὲν χαλεπόν.
"But tell me still one small thing: do not good things seem to you to be also beautiful?" "To me they do." "If then Eros is in want of beautiful things, and good things are beautiful, he would be in want of good things too." "I, Socrates," he said, "would not be able to contradict you, but let it be as you say." "Not at all, it is the truth, my beloved Agathon, that you cannot contradict," said Socrates, "since to contradict Socrates is nothing difficult.
καὶ σὲ μέν γε ἤδη ἐάσω· τὸν δὲ λόγον τὸν περὶ τοῦ Ἔρωτος, ὅν ποτʼ ἤκουσα γυναικὸς Μαντινικῆς Διοτίμας, ἣ ταῦτά τε σοφὴ ἦν καὶ ἄλλα πολλά—καὶ Ἀθηναίοις ποτὲ θυσαμένοις πρὸ τοῦ λοιμοῦ δέκα ἔτη ἀναβολὴν ἐποίησε τῆς νόσου, ἣ δὴ καὶ ἐμὲ τὰ ἐρωτικὰ ἐδίδαξεν—ὃν οὖν ἐκείνη ἔλεγε λόγον, πειράσομαι ὑμῖν διελθεῖν ἐκ τῶν ὡμολογημένων ἐμοὶ καὶ Ἀγάθωνι, αὐτὸς ἐπʼ ἐμαυτοῦ, ὅπως ἂν δύνωμαι.
And you, indeed, I shall now let be; but the speech about Eros which I once heard from a woman of Mantinea, Diotima, who was wise in these and many other things—and for the Athenians, when they made sacrifice before the plague, she once caused a ten-year postponement of the disease, and who indeed also taught me the things of love—that speech, then, which she spoke, I will try to go through for you, starting from the things agreed upon by me and Agathon, by myself, as best as I can.
δεῖ δή, ὦ Ἀγάθων, ὥσπερ σὺ διηγήσω, διελθεῖν αὐτὸν πρῶτον, τίς ἐστιν ὁ Ἔρως καὶ ποῖός τις, ἔπειτα τὰ ἔργα αὐτοῦ.
It is necessary indeed, Agathon, as you explained, to go through it first, who Eros is and of what sort, and then his works.
δοκεῖ οὖν μοι ῥᾷστον εἶναι οὕτω διελθεῖν, ὥς ποτέ με ἡ ξένη ἀνακρίνουσα διῄει.
It seems to me, then, to be easiest to go through it in this way, as the stranger woman once went through it while questioning me.
σχεδὸν γάρ τι καὶ ἐγὼ πρὸς αὐτὴν ἕτερα τοιαῦτα ἔλεγον οἷάπερ νῦν πρὸς ἐμὲ Ἀγάθων, ὡς εἴη ὁ Ἔρως μέγας θεός, εἴη δὲ τῶν καλῶν· ἤλεγχε δή με τούτοις τοῖς λόγοις οἷσπερ ἐγὼ τοῦτον, ὡς οὔτε καλὸς εἴη κατὰ τὸν ἐμὸν λόγον οὔτε ἀγαθός.
For I, too, said to her pretty much the same kinds of other things as Agathon just now said to me: that Eros was a great god, and was of beautiful things; and she refuted me indeed with these very arguments with which I refuted him, showing that according to my own argument he was neither beautiful nor good.
καὶ ἐγώ, πῶς λέγεις, ἔφην, ὦ Διοτίμα;
And I said, 'How do you mean, Diotima?
αἰσχρὸς ἄρα ὁ Ἔρως ἐστὶ καὶ κακός; καὶ ἥ, οὐκ εὐφημήσεις; ἔφη·
Is Eros then ugly and bad?' And she said, 'Will you not speak auspiciously?
ἢ οἴει, ὅτι ἂν μὴ καλὸν ᾖ, ἀναγκαῖον αὐτὸ εἶναι αἰσχρόν;
Or do you think that if something is not beautiful, it must necessarily be ugly?'"

Notes

  1. 201aτίνων ἔφησθα — The genitive τίνων is an objective genitive dependent on the noun ἔρωτα which is predicate to the infinitive εἶναι. It means "of what things you said Eros is (the love)."
  2. 201bκινδυνεύω — While commonly meaning "to run the risk of," here κινδυνεύω is used in an idiomatic sense to express a hesitant or modest admission: "I seem likely to" or "I suspect that I."
  3. 201cοὐ μὲν οὖν — A combination of particles used to reject the interlocutor's previous statement ("I cannot contradict you") and correct it with emphasis: "Nay, rather (it is the truth you cannot contradict)."
  4. 201dὃν οὖν ἐκείνη ἔλεγε λόγον — A grammatical construction where the antecedent λόγον is attracted into the relative clause ὃν ... ἔλεγε (inverse attraction or prolepsis), also functioning as the direct object of the main verb πειράσομαι.
  5. 201eοὐκ εὐφημήσεις; — A question consisting of the negative οὐ and the second-person future indicative, which idiomatically expresses a strong prohibition or command: "Will you not hold your tongue?" or "Do not speak ill-omened words."

Cite this passage

Plato, Symposium §201. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg011.humanitext-grc2:201

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