§59ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν ἐννοήσας τὸ τοιόνδε εἴρηκας ὃ λέγεις νῦν, ὡς αἱ πολλαὶ τέχναι, καὶ ὅσοι περὶ ταῦτα πεπόνηνται, πρῶτον μὲν δόξαις χρῶνται καὶ τὰ περὶ δόξαν ζητοῦσι συντεταμένως;
: Did you, then, say what you are now saying with this in mind—that most crafts, and all those who have labored in them, first of all make use of opinions and intently search for things concerning opinion?
εἴ τε καὶ περὶ φύσεως ἡγεῖταί τις ζητεῖν, οἶσθʼ ὅτι τὰ περὶ τὸν κόσμον τόνδε, ὅπῃ τε γέγονεν καὶ ὅπῃ πάσχει τι καὶ ὅπῃ ποιεῖ, ταῦτα ζητεῖ διὰ βίου;
And even if someone thinks he is searching into nature, you know that he is searching throughout his life for things concerning this cosmos—how it came to be, how it is acted upon, and how it acts?
φαῖμεν ἂν ταῦτα, ἢ πῶς; ΠΡΩ. οὕτως. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν οὐ περὶ τὰ ὄντα ἀεί, περὶ δὲ τὰ γιγνόμενα καὶ γενησόμενα καὶ γεγονότα ἡμῶν ὁ τοιοῦτος ἀνῄρηται τὸν πόνον; ΠΡΩ. ἀληθέστατα. ΣΩ. τούτων οὖν τι σαφὲς ἂν φαῖμεν τῇ ἀκριβεστάτῃ ἀληθείᾳ γίγνεσθαι, ὧν μήτε ἔσχε μηδὲν πώποτε κατὰ ταὐτὰ μήθʼ ἕξει μήτε εἰς τὸ νῦν παρὸν ἔχει; ΠΡΩ. καὶ πῶς; ΣΩ. περὶ οὖν τὰ μὴ κεκτημένα βεβαιότητα μηδʼ ἡντινοῦν πῶς ἄν ποτε βέβαιον γίγνοιθʼ ἡμῖν καὶ ὁτιοῦν; ΠΡΩ. οἶμαι μὲν οὐδαμῶς. ΣΩ. οὐδʼ ἄρα νοῦς οὐδέ τις ἐπιστήμη περὶ αὐτά ἐστιν τὸ ἀληθέστατον ἔχουσα. ΠΡΩ. οὔκουν εἰκός γε. ΣΩ. τὸν μὲν δὴ σὲ καὶ ἐμὲ καὶ Γοργίαν καὶ Φίληβον χρὴ συχνὰ χαίρειν ἐᾶν, τόδε δὲ διαμαρτύρασθαι τῷ λόγῳ. ΠΡΩ. τὸ ποῖον; ΣΩ. ὡς ἢ περὶ ἐκεῖνα ἔσθʼ ἡμῖν τό τε βέβαιον καὶ τὸ καθαρὸν καὶ ἀληθὲς καὶ ὃ δὴ λέγομεν εἰλικρινές, περὶ τὰ ἀεὶ κατὰ τὰ αὐτὰ ὡσαύτως ἀμεικτότατα ἔχοντα, ἢ ἐκείνων ὅτι μάλιστά ἐστι συγγενές· τὰ δʼ ἄλλα πάντα δεύτερά τε καὶ ὕστερα λεκτέον. ΠΡΩ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις. ΣΩ. τὰ δὴ τῶν ὀνομάτων περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα κάλλιστα ἆρʼ οὐ τοῖς καλλίστοις δικαιότατον ἀπονέμειν; ΠΡΩ. εἰκός γε. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν νοῦς ἐστι καὶ φρόνησις ἅ γʼ ἄν τις τιμήσειε μάλιστα ὀνόματα; ΠΡΩ. ναί. ΣΩ. ταῦτʼ ἄρα ἐν ταῖς περὶ τὸ ὂν ὄντως ἐννοίαις ἐστὶν ἀπηκριβωμένα ὀρθῶς κείμενα καλεῖσθαι. ΠΡΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν. ΣΩ. καὶ μὴν ἅ γε εἰς τὴν κρίσιν ἐγὼ τότε παρεσχόμην οὐκ ἄλλʼ ἐστὶν ἢ ταῦτα τὰ ὀνόματα. ΠΡΩ. τί μήν, ὦ Σώκρατες; ΣΩ. εἶεν.
Should we say these things, or how?PROTARCHUS: Just so.SOCRATES: Then such a person among us has undertaken his labor not concerning the things that always are, but concerning things that come to be, will come to be, and have come to be?PROTARCHUS: Most true.SOCRATES: Would we say, then, that any clarity in the most accurate truth arises in these things, none of which ever held, will hold, or now in the present holds itself in the same state?PROTARCHUS: How indeed could we?SOCRATES: Then concerning things that do not possess any stability whatsoever, how could anything at all ever become stable for us?PROTARCHUS: In no way at all, I think.SOCRATES: Nor, then, is there any intellect or any knowledge concerning them that possesses the highest truth.PROTARCHUS: It is certainly not likely.SOCRATES: Then we must bid a long farewell to you and me and Gorgias and Philebus, but bear witness to this in our argument. PROTARCHUS: What is that?SOCRATES: That either concerning those things is to be found for us that which is stable, pure, true, and what we call unmixed—namely, concerning the things that are always in the same way in the same state, most unmixed—or that which is as akin as possible to them; and all other things must be called secondary and subsequent.PROTARCHUS: You speak most truly.SOCRATES: Is it not, then, most just to assign the most beautiful of names concerning such things to the most beautiful objects?PROTARCHUS: It is indeed likely. SOCRATES: Is it not intellect and wisdom, then, that one would honor most as names?PROTARCHUS: Yes.SOCRATES: These names, therefore, are correctly applied and established with precision when they are used in thoughts concerning that which really is.PROTARCHUS: Entirely so.SOCRATES: And indeed, the names which I then brought forward for judgment are none other than these.PROTARCHUS: How could it be otherwise, Socrates?SOCRATES: Well then.
τὸ μὲν δὴ φρονήσεώς τε καὶ ἡδονῆς πέρι πρὸς τὴν ἀλλήλων μεῖξιν εἴ τις φαίη καθαπερεὶ δημιουργοῖς ἡμῖν ἐξ ὧν ἢ ἐν οἷς δεῖ δημιουργεῖν τι παρακεῖσθαι, καλῶς ἂν τῷ λόγῳ ἀπεικάζοι. ΠΡΩ. καὶ μάλα. ΣΩ. τὸ δὴ μετὰ ταῦτα ἆρʼ οὐ μειγνύναι ἐπιχειρητέον; ΠΡΩ. τί μήν; ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τάδε προειποῦσι καὶ ἀναμνήσασιν ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς ὀρθότερον ἂν ἔχοι; ΠΡΩ. τὰ ποῖα;
Regarding wisdom and pleasure, if someone were to say that, for their mixture with one another, they lie ready before us as craftsmen, as materials from which or in which we must craft something, he would be making a fine comparison in his argument.PROTARCHUS: Very much so.SOCRATES: Must we not, then, attempt to mix them after this?PROTARCHUS: Of course.SOCRATES: Would it not, then, be more correct if we first state and remind ourselves of the following things?PROTARCHUS: What things?