§46ΠΡΩ. ἀνάγκη.
PROTARCHUS: It must be.
ΣΩ. σκόπει δὴ τὰς τῶν τοιῶνδε νοσημάτων ἡδονάς, τίνα ποτὲ ἔχουσι τρόπον.
SOCRATES: Consider then the pleasures of such sicknesses, what sort of character they possess.
ΠΡΩ. ποίων;
PROTARCHUS: What kind?
ΣΩ. τὰς τῶν ἀσχημόνων, ἃς οὓς εἴπομεν δυσχερεῖς μισοῦσι παντελῶς.
SOCRATES: Those of disgraceful men, which those whom we called "fastidious" utterly hate.
ΠΡΩ. ποίας;
PROTARCHUS: What kind of pleasures?
ΣΩ. οἷον τὰς τῆς ψώρας ἰάσεις τῷ τρίβειν καὶ ὅσα τοιαῦτα, οὐκ ἄλλης δεόμενα φαρμάξεως· τοῦτο γὰρ δὴ τὸ πάθος ἡμῖν, ὦ πρὸς θεῶν, τί ποτε φῶμεν ἐγγίγνεσθαι;
SOCRATES: For instance, the cures of scabies by scratching, and all such things that do not require any other medical treatment; for this state of ours, by the gods, what on earth should we say arises in it?
πότερον ἡδονὴν ἢ λύπην;
Pleasure, or pain?
ΠΡΩ. σύμμεικτον τοῦτό γʼ ἄρʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔοικε γίγνεσθαί τι κακόν.
PROTARCHUS: This indeed seems to be a sort of mixed evil, Socrates.
ΣΩ. οὐ μὲν δὴ Φιλήβου γε ἕνεκα παρεθέμην τὸν λόγον·
SOCRATES: Certainly, I did not bring forward this argument for the sake of Philebus.
ἀλλʼ ἄνευ τούτων, ὦ Πρώταρχε, τῶν ἡδονῶν καὶ τῶν ταύταις ἑπομένων, ἂν μὴ κατοφθῶσι, σχεδὸν οὐκ ἄν ποτε δυναίμεθα διακρίνασθαι τὸ νῦν ζητούμενον.
But, Protarchus, without these pleasures and those that follow them, unless they are clearly seen, we would probably never be able to decide what is now being investigated.
ΠΡΩ. οὐκοῦν ἰτέον ἐπὶ τὰς τούτων συγγενεῖς.
PROTARCHUS: Therefore we must go to those that are related to these.
ΣΩ. τὰς ἐν τῇ μείξει κοινωνούσας λέγεις;
SOCRATES: Do you mean those that share in the mixture?
ΠΡΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
PROTARCHUS: Yes, precisely.
ΣΩ. εἰσὶ τοίνυν μείξεις αἱ μὲν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα ἐν αὐτοῖς τοῖς σώμασιν, αἱ δʼ αὐτῆς τῆς ψυχῆς ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ· τὰς δʼ αὖ τῆς ψυχῆς καὶ τοῦ σώματος ἀνευρήσομεν λύπας ἡδοναῖς μειχθείσας τοτὲ μὲν ἡδονὰς τὰ συναμφότερα, τοτὲ δὲ λύπας ἐπικαλουμένας.
SOCRATES: Now, there are mixtures, some regarding the body, occurring within the body itself, others belonging to the soul itself, occurring within the soul; and again, we shall find those of the soul and body together, where pains are mixed with pleasures, and the combination is sometimes called pleasure, sometimes pain.
ΠΡΩ. πῶς;
PROTARCHUS: How so?
ΣΩ. ὁπόταν ἐν τῇ καταστάσει τις ἢ τῇ διαφθορᾷ τἀναντία ἅμα πάθη πάσχῃ, ποτὲ ῥιγῶν θέρηται καὶ θερμαινόμενος ἐνίοτε ψύχηται, ζητῶν οἶμαι τὸ μὲν ἔχειν, τοῦ δὲ ἀπαλλάττεσθαι, τὸ δὴ λεγόμενον πικρῷ γλυκὺ μεμειγμένον, μετὰ δυσαπαλλακτίας παρόν, ἀγανάκτησιν καὶ ὕστερον σύντασιν ἀγρίαν ποιεῖ.
SOCRATES: Whenever someone experiences opposite affections at the same time in the process of restoration or destruction—for instance, when shivering he gets warm, and when warm he sometimes gets cold, seeking, I suppose, to possess the one and to be rid of the other—and what is called "sweet mixed with bitter," being present with difficulty of escape, causes irritation and later savage tension.
ΠΡΩ. καὶ μάλα ἀληθὲς τὸ νῦν λεγόμενον.
PROTARCHUS: What has just been said is very true.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν αἱ τοιαῦται μείξεις αἱ μὲν ἐξ ἴσων εἰσὶ λυπῶν τε καὶ ἡδονῶν, αἱ δʼ ἐκ τῶν ἑτέρων πλειόνων;
SOCRATES: Are not such mixtures then composed of equal parts of pains and pleasures, and others of more of one or the other?
ΠΡΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
PROTARCHUS: How could they not be?
ΣΩ. λέγε δὴ τὰς μέν, ὅταν πλείους λῦπαι τῶν ἡδονῶν γίγνωνται—τὰς τῆς ψώρας λεγομένας νυνδὴ ταύτας εἶναι καὶ τὰς τῶν γαργαλισμῶν—ὁπόταν ἐν τοῖς ἐντὸς τὸ ζέον ᾖ καὶ τὸ φλεγμαῖνον, τῇ τρίψει δὲ καὶ τῇ κνήσει μὴ ἐφικνῆταί τις, τὸ δʼ ἐπιπολῆς μόνον διαχέῃ, τοτὲ φέροντες εἰς πῦρ αὐτὰ καὶ εἰς τοὐναντίον πυρίαις μεταβάλλοντες ἐνίοτε ἀμηχάνους ἡδονάς, τοτὲ δὲ τοὐναντίον τοῖς ἐντὸς πρὸς τὰ τῶν ἔξω, λύπας ἡδοναῖς συγκερασθείσας, εἰς ὁπότερʼ ἂν ῥέψῃ, παρέσχοντο τῷ τὰ συγκεκριμένα βίᾳ διαχεῖν ἢ τὰ διακεκριμένα συγχεῖν — ὁμοῦ λύπας ἡδοναῖς παρατιθέναι.
SOCRATES: Let us then discuss the cases where the pains are greater than the pleasures—which we just now called those of scabies and of itchings—when there is a boiling and inflammation in the inner parts, and one cannot reach them by rubbing and scratching, but only disperses what is on the surface; sometimes, by bringing these parts to the fire and changing them by sweat-baths to the opposite, they experience sometimes unimaginable pleasures, and at other times, on the contrary, by opposing the inner parts with the outer, pains mixed with pleasures, whichever way they incline, they provide—by violently dispersing what is compressed or compressing what is dispersed — pains together with pleasures side by side.
§47ΠΡΩ. ἀληθέστατα.
PROTARCHUS: Most true.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὁπόταν αὖ πλείων ἡδονὴ κατὰ τὰ τοιαῦτα πάντα συμμειχθῇ, τὸ μὲν ὑπομεμειγμένον τῆς λύπης γαργαλίζει τε καὶ ἠρέμα ἀγανακτεῖν ποιεῖ, τὸ δʼ αὖ τῆς ἡδονῆς πολὺ πλέον ἐγκεχυμένον συντείνει τε καὶ ἐνίοτε πηδᾶν ποιεῖ, καὶ παντοῖα μὲν χρώματα, παντοῖα δὲ σχήματα, παντοῖα δὲ πνεύματα ἀπεργαζόμενον πᾶσαν ἔκπληξιν καὶ βοὰς μετὰ ἀφροσύνης ἐνεργάζεται;
SOCRATES: And when, on the other hand, more pleasure is mixed in all such cases, does not the small portion of pain that is mixed in tickle and cause mild irritation, while the far greater amount of pleasure poured in, tightens the nerves and sometimes makes one leap, producing all kinds of colors, all kinds of postures, and all kinds of breathings, and instills utter astonishment and shouts accompanied by madness?
ΠΡΩ. μάλα γε.
PROTARCHUS: Very much so.
ΣΩ. καὶ λέγειν τε, ὦ ἑταῖρε, αὐτόν τε περὶ ἑαυτοῦ ποιεῖ καὶ ἄλλον ὡς ταύταις ταῖς ἡδοναῖς τερπόμενος οἷον ἀποθνῄσκει· καὶ ταύτας γε δὴ παντάπασιν ἀεὶ μεταδιώκει τοσούτῳ μᾶλλον ὅσῳ ἂν ἀκολαστότερός τε καὶ ἀφρονέστερος ὢν τυγχάνῃ, καὶ καλεῖ δὴ μεγίστας ταύτας, καὶ τὸν ἐν αὐταῖς ὅτι μάλιστʼ ἀεὶ ζῶντα εὐδαιμονέστατον καταριθμεῖται.
SOCRATES: And, my friend, it makes both himself say of himself, and another say of him, that enjoying these pleasures he, as it were, is dying; and these indeed he always pursues altogether, all the more in proportion as he happens to be more licentious and foolish, and he calls these the greatest, and counts him who lives as much as possible in them the happiest of men.
ΠΡΩ. πάντα, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὰ συμβαίνοντα πρὸς τῶν πολλῶν ἀνθρώπων εἰς δόξαν διεπέρανας.
PROTARCHUS: Socrates, you have gone through everything that happens according to the opinion of the multitude.
ΣΩ. περί γε τῶν ἡδονῶν, ὦ Πρώταρχε, τῶν ἐν τοῖς κοινοῖς παθήμασιν αὐτοῦ τοῦ σώματος τῶν ἐπιπολῆς τε καὶ ἐντὸς κερασθέντων·
SOCRATES: Yes, Protarchus, regarding the pleasures in the common affections of the body itself, those of the surface and those of the interior mixed together.
περὶ δέ γʼ ὧν ψυχὴ σώματι τἀναντία συμβάλλεται, λύπην τε ἅμα πρὸς ἡδονὴν καὶ ἡδονὴν πρὸς λύπην, ὥστʼ εἰς μίαν ἀμφότερα κρᾶσιν ἰέναι, ταῦτα ἔμπροσθε μὲν διήλθομεν, ὡς, ὁπόταν κενῶται, πληρώσεως ἐπιθυμεῖ, καὶ ἐλπίζων μὲν χαίρει, κενούμενος δὲ ἀλγεῖ, ταῦτα δὲ τότε μὲν οὐκ ἐμαρτυράμεθα, νῦν δὲ λέγομεν ὡς ψυχῆς πρὸς σῶμα διαφερομένης ἐν πᾶσι τούτοις πλήθει ἀμηχάνοις οὖσι μεῖξις μία λύπης τε καὶ ἡδονῆς συμπίπτει γενομένη.
But as for those in which the soul contributes opposites to the body, bringing pain at the same time alongside pleasure and pleasure alongside pain, so that both go into a single mixture—we went through these before, how, when the body is emptied, it desires replenishment, and when hoping it rejoices, but when being emptied it suffers; and though at that time we did not call these as witnesses, we now assert that when the soul is at variance with the body, in all these cases, which are boundless in number, a single mixture of pain and pleasure happens to occur.
ΠΡΩ. κινδυνεύεις ὀρθότατα λέγειν.
PROTARCHUS: You seem to speak most correctly.
ΣΩ. ἔτι τοίνυν ἡμῖν τῶν μείξεων λύπης τε καὶ ἡδονῆς λοιπὴ μία.
SOCRATES: Furthermore, then, one mixture of pain and pleasure still remains for us.
ΠΡΩ. ποία, φῄς;
PROTARCHUS: Which one do you mean?
ΣΩ. ἣν αὐτὴν τὴν ψυχὴν αὑτῇ πολλάκις λαμβάνειν σύγκρασιν ἔφαμεν.
SOCRATES: The one which we said the soul itself often takes on as a mixture by itself.
ΠΡΩ. πῶς οὖν δὴ τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ λέγομεν;
PROTARCHUS: How then indeed do we explain this very thing?
ΣΩ. ὀργὴν καὶ φόβον καὶ πόθον καὶ θρῆνον καὶ ἔρωτα καὶ ζῆλον καὶ φθόνον καὶ ὅσα τοιαῦτα, ἆρʼ οὐκ αὐτῆς τῆς ψυχῆς τίθεσαι ταύτας λύπας τινάς;
SOCRATES: Anger, fear, yearning, lamentation, love, jealousy, envy, and all such things—do you not class these as certain pains of the soul itself?
ΠΡΩ. ἔγωγε.
PROTARCHUS: I do.