§30ΣΩ. τί δέ;
SOCRATES: And what of this?
τόδε ἆρα ἄξιον; ἢ πῶς ἐρεῖς;
Is this indeed worthy of being asked, or how will you say?
ΠΡΩ. λέγε τὸ ποῖον.
PROTARCHUS: Only speak which kind of thing you mean.
ΣΩ. τὸ παρʼ ἡμῖν σῶμα ἆρʼ οὐ ψυχὴν φήσομεν ἔχειν;
SOCRATES: Shall we not say that the body in us has a soul?
ΠΡΩ. δῆλον ὅτι φήσομεν.
PROTARCHUS: It is clear that we shall say so.
ΣΩ. πόθεν, ὦ φίλε Πρώταρχε, λαβόν, εἴπερ μὴ τό γε τοῦ παντὸς σῶμα ἔμψυχον ὂν ἐτύγχανε, ταὐτά γε ἔχον τούτῳ καὶ ἔτι πάντῃ καλλίονα;
SOCRATES: From where, my dear Protarchus, did it receive it, if indeed the body of the universe did not happen to be ensouled, possessing the same things as this and still more beautiful in every way?
ΠΡΩ. δῆλον ὡς οὐδαμόθεν ἄλλοθεν, ὦ Σώκρατες.
PROTARCHUS: It is clear that from nowhere else, Socrates.
ΣΩ. οὐ γάρ που δοκοῦμέν γε, ὦ Πρώταρχε, τὰ τέτταρα ἐκεῖνα, πέρας καὶ ἄπειρον καὶ κοινὸν καὶ τὸ τῆς αἰτίας γένος ἐν ἅπασι τέταρτον ἐνόν, τοῦτο ἐν μὲν τοῖς παρʼ ἡμῖν ψυχήν τε παρέχον καὶ σωμασκίαν ἐμποιοῦν καὶ πταίσαντος σώματος ἰατρικὴν καὶ ἐν ἄλλοις ἄλλα συντιθὲν καὶ ἀκούμενον πᾶσαν καὶ παντοίαν σοφίαν ἐπικαλεῖσθαι, τῶν δʼ αὐτῶν τούτων ὄντων ἐν ὅλῳ τε οὐρανῷ καὶ κατὰ μεγάλα μέρη, καὶ προσέτι καλῶν καὶ εἰλικρινῶν, ἐν τούτοις δʼ οὐκ ἄρα μεμηχανῆσθαι τὴν τῶν καλλίστων καὶ τιμιωτάτων φύσιν.
SOCRATES: For we surely do not think, Protarchus, that those four things—limit, the unlimited, the mixture, and the genus of cause present in all things as the fourth—while in the things in us it provides soul, produces physical training, and cures the body when it stumbles, and in other things composes and heals other matters, being called all manner of wisdom, yet, while these same things exist in the whole heaven and in its great parts, and are moreover beautiful and pure, in these things, however, the nature of the most beautiful and honorable things has not been engineered.
ΠΡΩ. ἀλλʼ οὐδαμῶς τοῦτό γʼ ἂν λόγον ἔχοι.
PROTARCHUS: No, for that would in no way make sense.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν εἰ μὴ τοῦτο, μετʼ ἐκείνου τοῦ λόγου ἂν ἑπόμενοι βέλτιον λέγοιμεν ὡς ἔστιν, ἃ πολλάκις εἰρήκαμεν, ἄπειρόν τε ἐν τῷ παντὶ πολύ, καὶ πέρας ἱκανόν, καί τις ἐπʼ αὐτοῖς αἰτία οὐ φαύλη, κοσμοῦσά τε καὶ συντάττουσα ἐνιαυτούς τε καὶ ὥρας καὶ μῆνας, σοφία καὶ νοῦς λεγομένη δικαιότατʼ ἄν.
SOCRATES: Then, if not this, following that argument we would speak better by saying that there is, as we have often said, much unlimited in the universe, and sufficient limit, and over them a cause of no small value, ordering and arranging years, seasons, and months, which would most justly be called wisdom and intellect.
ΠΡΩ. δικαιότατα δῆτα.
PROTARCHUS: Most justly indeed.
ΣΩ. σοφία μὴν καὶ νοῦς ἄνευ ψυχῆς οὐκ ἄν ποτε γενοίσθην.
SOCRATES: But wisdom and intellect could never come to be without soul.
ΠΡΩ. οὐ γὰρ οὖν.
PROTARCHUS: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ἐν μὲν τῇ τοῦ Διὸς ἐρεῖς φύσει βασιλικὴν μὲν ψυχήν, βασιλικὸν δὲ νοῦν ἐγγίγνεσθαι διὰ τὴν τῆς αἰτίας δύναμιν, ἐν δʼ ἄλλοις ἄλλα καλά, καθʼ ὅτι φίλον ἑκάστοις λέγεσθαι.
SOCRATES: Therefore you will say that in the nature of Zeus a royal soul and a royal intellect come to be through the power of the cause, and in other cases other beautiful things, according to whatever it is pleasing for each to be called.
ΠΡΩ. μάλα γε.
PROTARCHUS: Very much so.
ΣΩ. τοῦτον δὴ τὸν λόγον ἡμᾶς μή τι μάτην δόξῃς, ὦ Πρώταρχε, εἰρηκέναι, ἀλλʼ ἔστι τοῖς μὲν πάλαι ἀποφηναμένοις ὡς ἀεὶ τοῦ παντὸς νοῦς ἄρχει σύμμαχος ἐκείνοις.
SOCRATES: Do not think, Protarchus, that we have spoken this argument in vain; rather, it is an ally to those who declared of old that intellect always rules the universe.
ΠΡΩ. ἔστι γὰρ οὖν.
PROTARCHUS: It is indeed.
ΣΩ. τῇ δέ γε ἐμῇ ζητήσει πεπορικὼς ἀπόκρισιν, ὅτι νοῦς ἐστὶ γένους τῆς τοῦ πάντων αἰτίου λεχθέντος.
SOCRATES: And moreover, it has provided an answer to my inquiry, namely that intellect belongs to the genus of what was called the cause of all things.
ἔχεις γὰρ δήπου νῦν ἡμῶν ἤδη τὴν ἀπόκρισιν.
For you now indeed already have our answer.
ΠΡΩ. ἔχω καὶ μάλα ἱκανῶς· καίτοι με ἀποκρινάμενος ἔλαθες.
PROTARCHUS: I have it, and very sufficiently indeed; yet you escaped my notice in answering me.
ΣΩ. ἀνάπαυλα γάρ, ὦ Πρώταρχε, τῆς σπουδῆς γίγνεται ἐνίοτε ἡ παιδιά.
SOCRATES: For play, Protarchus, is sometimes a relaxation from serious study.
ΠΡΩ. καλῶς εἶπες.
PROTARCHUS: Well said.
§31ΣΩ. νῦν δήπου, ὦ ἑταῖρε, οὗ μὲν γένους ἐστὶ καὶ τίνα ποτὲ δύναμιν κέκτηται, σχεδὸν ἐπιεικῶς ἡμῖν τὰ νῦν δεδήλωται.
SOCRATES: Now, indeed, my companion, of what genus it is and what power it possesses has been revealed to us reasonably well.
ΠΡΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
PROTARCHUS: Certainly.
ΣΩ. καὶ μὴν ἡδονῆς γε ὡσαύτως πάλαι τὸ γένος ἐφάνη.
SOCRATES: And indeed, for pleasure likewise, its genus appeared long ago.
ΠΡΩ. καὶ μάλα.
PROTARCHUS: Very much so.
ΣΩ. μεμνώμεθα δὴ καὶ ταῦτα περὶ ἀμφοῖν, ὅτι νοῦς μὲν αἰτίας ἦν συγγενὴς καὶ τούτου σχεδὸν τοῦ γένους, ἡδονὴ δὲ ἄπειρός τε αὐτὴ καὶ τοῦ μήτε ἀρχὴν μήτε μέσα μήτε τέλος ἐν αὑτῷ ἀφʼ ἑαυτοῦ ἔχοντος μηδὲ ἕξοντός ποτε γένους.
SOCRATES: Let us then remember these things also about both of them: that intellect was akin to cause and belonged nearly to this genus, while pleasure itself is unlimited, belonging to the genus that has neither beginning nor middle nor end in itself from itself, nor will ever have.
ΠΡΩ. μεμνησόμεθα· πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
PROTARCHUS: We shall remember; for how could we not?
ΣΩ. δεῖ δὴ τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο, ἐν ᾧ τέ ἐστιν ἑκάτερον αὐτοῖν καὶ διὰ τί πάθος γίγνεσθον ὁπόταν γίγνησθον ἰδεῖν ἡμᾶς.
SOCRATES: It is necessary then, after this, for us to see in what each of them exists and through what experience they come to be whenever they come to be.
πρῶτον τὴν ἡδονήν· ὥσπερ τὸ γένος αὐτῆς πρότερον ἐβασανίσαμεν, οὕτω καὶ ταῦτα πρότερα.
First, pleasure; just as we examined its genus before, so also we must examine these things first.
λύπης δὲ αὖ χωρὶς τὴν ἡδονὴν οὐκ ἄν ποτε δυναίμεθα ἱκανῶς βασανίσαι.
But on the other hand, we could never sufficiently examine pleasure apart from pain.
ΠΡΩ. ἀλλʼ εἰ ταύτῃ χρὴ πορεύεσθαι, ταύτῃ πορευώμεθα.
PROTARCHUS: But if we must go this way, let us go this way.
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν σοὶ καθάπερ ἐμοὶ φαίνεται τῆς γενέσεως αὐτῶν πέρι;
SOCRATES: Does it then appear to you as it does to me concerning their generation?
ΠΡΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
PROTARCHUS: What kind of thing?
ΣΩ. ἐν τῷ κοινῷ μοι γένει ἅμα φαίνεσθον λύπη τε καὶ ἡδονὴ γίγνεσθαι κατὰ φύσιν.
SOCRATES: In the mixed genus, it appears to me that pain and pleasure come to be together according to nature.
ΠΡΩ. κοινὸν δέ γε, ὦ φίλε Σώκρατες, ὑπομίμνῃσκε ἡμᾶς τί ποτε τῶν προειρημένων βούλει δηλοῦν.
PROTARCHUS: But as for the mixed, my dear Socrates, remind us which of the aforementioned things you wish to point out.
ΣΩ. ἔσται ταῦτʼ εἰς δύναμιν, ὦ θαυμάσιε.
SOCRATES: This shall be done to the best of my power, my wonderful friend.
ΠΡΩ. καλῶς εἶπες.
PROTARCHUS: Well said.
ΣΩ. κοινὸν τοίνυν ὑπακούωμεν ὃ δὴ τῶν τεττάρων τρίτον ἐλέγομεν.
SOCRATES: Let us then understand 'mixed' as that which we called the third of the four.
ΠΡΩ. ὃ μετὰ τὸ ἄπειρον καὶ πέρας ἔλεγες, ἐν ᾧ καὶ ὑγίειαν, οἶμαι δὲ καὶ ἁρμονίαν, ἐτίθεσο;
PROTARCHUS: The one you spoke of after the unlimited and the limit, in which you placed health, and I think also harmony?
ΣΩ. κάλλιστʼ εἶπες.
SOCRATES: Most beautifully you said it.
τὸν νοῦν δὲ ὅτι μάλιστʼ ἤδη πρόσεχε.
Now pay attention as much as possible.
ΠΡΩ. λέγε μόνον.
PROTARCHUS: Only speak.
ΣΩ. λέγω τοίνυν τῆς ἁρμονίας μὲν λυομένης ἡμῖν ἐν τοῖς ζῴοις ἅμα λύσιν τῆς φύσεως καὶ γένεσιν ἀλγηδόνων ἐν τῷ τότε γίγνεσθαι χρόνῳ.
SOCRATES: I say then, when harmony is dissolved in us, in animals, at the same time a dissolution of nature and a generation of pains occur at that very time.
ΠΡΩ. πάνυ λέγεις εἰκός.
PROTARCHUS: What you say is very likely indeed.
ΣΩ. πάλιν δὲ ἁρμοττομένης τε καὶ εἰς τὴν αὑτῆς φύσιν ἀπιούσης ἡδονὴν γίγνεσθαι λεκτέον, εἰ δεῖ διʼ ὀλίγων περὶ μεγίστων ὅτι τάχιστα ῥηθῆναι.
SOCRATES: But on the other hand, when it is harmonized again and returns to its own nature, we must say that pleasure comes to be, if indeed we must speak of the greatest matters as quickly as possible in brief.
ΠΡΩ. οἶμαι μέν σε ὀρθῶς λέγειν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐμφανέστερον δὲ ἔτι ταὐτὰ ταῦτα πειρώμεθα λέγειν.
PROTARCHUS: I think indeed that you speak rightly, Socrates, but let us try to say these same things even more clearly.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τὰ δημόσιά που καὶ περιφανῆ ῥᾷστον συννοεῖν;
SOCRATES: Is it not easiest to understand things that are common and obvious?
ΠΡΩ. ποῖα;
PROTARCHUS: What kind of things?
ΣΩ. πείνη μέν που λύσις καὶ λύπη;
SOCRATES: Hunger, I suppose, is a dissolution and a pain?
ΠΡΩ. ναί.
PROTARCHUS: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἐδωδὴ δέ, πλήρωσις γιγνομένη πάλιν, ἡδονή;
SOCRATES: And eating, which is a filling up again, is a pleasure?
ΠΡΩ. ναί.
PROTARCHUS: Yes.