§29ΣΩ. βούλει δῆτά τι καὶ ἡμεῖς τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν ὁμολογούμενον συμφήσωμεν ὡς ταῦθʼ οὕτως ἔχει, καὶ μὴ μόνον οἰώμεθα δεῖν τἀλλότρια ἄνευ κινδύνου λέγειν, ἀλλὰ καὶ συγκινδυνεύωμεν καὶ μετέχωμεν τοῦ ψόγου, ὅταν ἀνὴρ δεινὸς φῇ ταῦτα μὴ οὕτως ἀλλʼ ἀτάκτως ἔχειν;
SOCRATES: Do you wish, then, that we too should agree to something in accord with our predecessors, that these things are so, and not only think that we ought to say the things of others without danger, but also share the danger and partake of the blame whenever a clever man says that these things are not so, but in disorder?
ΠΡΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὐκ ἂν βουλοίμην;
PROTARCHUS: How could I not wish so?
ΣΩ. ἴθι δή, τὸν ἐπιόντα περὶ τούτων νῦν ἡμῖν λόγον ἄθρει.
SOCRATES: Come then, behold the argument that now comes upon us concerning these things.
ΠΡΩ. λέγε μόνον.
PROTARCHUS: Only speak.
ΣΩ. τὰ περὶ τὴν τῶν σωμάτων φύσιν ἁπάντων τῶν ζῴων, πῦρ καὶ ὕδωρ καὶ πνεῦμα καθορῶμέν που καὶ γῆν καθάπερ οἱ χειμαζόμενοι, φασίν, ἐνόντα ἐν τῇ συστάσει.
SOCRATES: We observe, I suppose, fire and water and breath and earth present in the constitution of the nature of the bodies of all animals, just like those who are tossed in a storm, as they say.
ΠΡΩ. καὶ μάλα· χειμαζόμεθα γὰρ ὄντως ὑπʼ ἀπορίας ἐν τοῖς νῦν λόγοις.
PROTARCHUS: Very much so; for we are indeed tossed in a storm of perplexity in our present arguments.
ΣΩ. φέρε δή, περὶ ἑκάστου τῶν παρʼ ἡμῖν λαβὲ τὸ τοιόνδε.
SOCRATES: Come then, take the following point concerning each of the things in us.
ΠΡΩ. ποῖον;
PROTARCHUS: What kind of point?
ΣΩ. ὅτι μικρόν τε τούτων ἕκαστον παρʼ ἡμῖν ἔνεστι καὶ φαῦλον καὶ οὐδαμῇ οὐδαμῶς εἰλικρινὲς ὂν καὶ τὴν δύναμιν οὐκ ἀξίαν τῆς φύσεως ἔχον.
SOCRATES: That each of these in us is small and weak, and in no way and in no manner pure, and possesses a power unworthy of its nature.
ἐν ἑνὶ δὲ λαβὼν περὶ πάντων νόει ταὐτόν.
But taking this in one case, think of the same for all of them.
οἷον πῦρ ἔστι μέν που παρʼ ἡμῖν, ἔστι δʼ ἐν τῷ παντί.
For instance, there is fire in us, and there is also fire in the universe.
ΠΡΩ. τί μήν;
PROTARCHUS: Of course.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν σμικρὸν μέν τι τὸ παρʼ ἡμῖν καὶ ἀσθενὲς καὶ φαῦλον, τὸ δʼ ἐν τῷ παντὶ πλήθει τε θαυμαστὸν καὶ κάλλει καὶ πάσῃ δυνάμει τῇ περὶ τὸ πῦρ οὔσῃ.
SOCRATES: Then, is the one in us small, weak, and poor, while the one in the universe is wonderful in multitude, beauty, and all the power belonging to fire?
ΠΡΩ. καὶ μάλʼ ἀληθὲς ὃ λέγεις.
PROTARCHUS: And what you say is very true.
ΣΩ. τί δέ;
SOCRATES: And what?
τρέφεται καὶ γίγνεται ἐκ τούτου καὶ αὔξεται τὸ τοῦ παντὸς πῦρ ὑπὸ τοῦ παρʼ ἡμῖν πυρός, ἢ τοὐναντίον ὑπʼ ἐκείνου τό τʼ ἐμὸν καὶ τὸ σὸν καὶ τὸ τῶν ἄλλων ζῴων ἅπαντʼ ἴσχει ταῦτα;
Is the fire of the universe nourished and generated and increased by the fire in us, or, on the contrary, does mine and yours and that of all other animals receive all these things from that one?
ΠΡΩ. τοῦτο μὲν οὐδʼ ἀποκρίσεως ἄξιον ἐρωτᾷς.
PROTARCHUS: You ask something that is not even worthy of an answer.
ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς· ταὐτὰ γὰρ ἐρεῖς οἶμαι περί τε τῆς ἐν τοῖς ζῴοις γῆς τῆς ἐνθάδε καὶ τῆς ἐν τῷ παντί, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων δὴ πάντων ὅσων ἠρώτησα ὀλίγον ἔμπροσθεν.
SOCRATES: Rightly so; for you will say the same, I suppose, about the earth in the animals here and that in the universe, and indeed about all the other things I asked about a moment ago.
οὕτως ἀποκρινῇ;
Will you answer so?
ΠΡΩ. τίς γὰρ ἀποκρινόμενος ἄλλως ὑγιαίνων ἄν ποτε φανείη;
PROTARCHUS: For who, in answering otherwise, would ever appear to be in his right mind?
ΣΩ. σχεδὸν οὐδʼ ὁστισοῦν·
SOCRATES: Hardly anyone indeed.
ἀλλὰ τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ἑξῆς ἕπου.
But follow the next step in order.
πάντα γὰρ ἡμεῖς ταῦτα τὰ νυνδὴ λεχθέντα ἆρʼ οὐκ εἰς ἓν συγκείμενα ἰδόντες ἐπωνομάσαμεν σῶμα;
Did we not, seeing all these things just mentioned compiled into one, call it 'body'?
ΠΡΩ. τί μήν;
PROTARCHUS: Of course.
ΣΩ. ταὐτὸν δὴ λαβὲ καὶ περὶ τοῦδε ὃν κόσμον λέγομεν· τὸν αὐτὸν γὰρ τρόπον ἂν εἴη που σῶμα, σύνθετον ὂν ἐκ τῶν αὐτῶν.
SOCRATES: Take then the same thing also concerning this which we call the world; for in the same way, I suppose, it would be a body, being composed of the same things.
ΠΡΩ. ὀρθότατα λέγεις.
PROTARCHUS: Most rightly you speak.
ΣΩ. πότερον οὖν ἐκ τούτου τοῦ σώματος ὅλως τὸ παρʼ ἡμῖν σῶμα ἢ ἐκ τοῦ παρʼ ἡμῖν τοῦτο τρέφεταί τε καὶ ὅσα νυνδὴ περὶ αὐτῶν εἴπομεν εἴληφέν τε καὶ ἔχει;
SOCRATES: Whether then is the body in us nourished from this body as a whole, and has received and possesses all that we just said about them, or does this one get them from the body in us?
ΠΡΩ. καὶ τοῦθʼ ἕτερον, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ ἄξιον ἐρωτήσεως.
PROTARCHUS: This is another thing, Socrates, not worthy of being asked.