§285ΞΕ. ὃ γὰρ ἐνίοτε, ὦ Σώκρατες, οἰόμενοι δή τι σοφὸν φράζειν πολλοὶ τῶν κομψῶν λέγουσιν, ὡς ἄρα μετρητικὴ περὶ πάντʼ ἐστὶ τὰ γιγνόμενα, τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ τὸ νῦν λεχθὲν ὂν τυγχάνει.
STRANGER: For that which many of the clever people say sometimes, Socrates, thinking indeed that they are uttering something wise, namely that the art of measurement is about all things that come to be, this very thing happens to be what has now been said.
μετρήσεως μὲν γὰρ δή τινα τρόπον πάνθʼ ὁπόσα ἔντεχνα μετείληφεν· διὰ δὲ τὸ μὴ κατʼ εἴδη συνειθίσθαι σκοπεῖν διαιρουμένους ταῦτά τε τοσοῦτον διαφέροντα συμβάλλουσιν εὐθὺς εἰς ταὐτὸν ὅμοια νομίσαντες, καὶ τοὐναντίον αὖ τούτου δρῶσιν ἕτερα οὐ κατὰ μέρη διαιροῦντες, δέον, ὅταν μὲν τὴν τῶν πολλῶν τις πρότερον αἴσθηται κοινωνίαν, μὴ προαφίστασθαι πρὶν ἂν ἐν αὐτῇ τὰς διαφορὰς ἴδῃ πάσας ὁπόσαιπερ ἐν εἴδεσι κεῖνται, τὰς δὲ αὖ παντοδαπὰς ἀνομοιότητας, ὅταν ἐν πλήθεσιν ὀφθῶσιν, μὴ δυνατὸν εἶναι δυσωπούμενον παύεσθαι πρὶν ἂν σύμπαντα τὰ οἰκεῖα ἐντὸς μιᾶς ὁμοιότητος ἕρξας γένους τινὸς οὐσίᾳ περιβάληται.
For indeed all things that belong to art have shared in some way in measurement; but because they are not accustomed to examine by dividing according to forms, they immediately throw together these things which differ so much, thinking them to be alike, and they do the opposite of this in turn with respect to other things, not dividing them according to parts, whereas, when someone first perceives the community of many things, he ought not to desist before he sees all the differences in it, as many as actually lie in forms, and in turn, as for the all-various dissimiliarities, when they are seen in multitudes, he ought not to be able to stop in embarrassment before, having enclosed all the related things within one similarity, he wraps them in the essence of some genus.
ταῦτα μὲν οὖν ἱκανῶς περί τε τούτων καὶ περὶ τῶν ἐλλείψεων καὶ ὑπερβολῶν εἰρήσθω· φυλάττωμεν δὲ μόνον ὅτι δύο γένη περὶ αὐτὰ ἐξηύρηται τῆς μετρητικῆς, καὶ ἅ φαμεν αὔτʼ εἶναι μεμνώμεθα.
Let this much then be said sufficiently concerning these things and concerning deficiencies and excesses; and let us only guard that two kinds of the art of measurement have been found concerning them, and let us remember what we say they are.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. μεμνησόμεθα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: We shall remember.
ΞΕ. μετὰ τοῦτον δὴ τὸν λόγον ἕτερον προσδεξώμεθα περὶ αὐτῶν τε τῶν ζητουμένων καὶ περὶ πάσης τῆς ἐν τοῖς τοιοῖσδε λόγοις διατριβῆς.
STRANGER: After this argument, let us receive another concerning both the things themselves being sought and concerning the whole of our occupation in such discussions.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What sort of thing?
ΞΕ. εἴ τις ἀνέροιτο ἡμᾶς τὴν περὶ γράμματα συνουσίαν τῶν μανθανόντων, ὁπόταν τις ὁτιοῦν ὄνομα ἐρωτηθῇ τίνων ἐστὶ γραμμάτων, πότερον αὐτῷ τότε φῶμεν γίγνεσθαι τὴν ζήτησιν ἑνὸς ἕνεκα μᾶλλον τοῦ προβληθέντος ἢ τοῦ περὶ πάντα τὰ προβαλλόμενα γραμματικωτέρῳ γίγνεσθαι;
STRANGER: If someone should ask us about the study of letters by learners, whenever someone is asked of what letters any name whatsoever consists, shall we say that for him then the inquiry is undertaken more for the sake of the single word proposed, or for the sake of becoming more grammatical concerning all proposed words?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. δῆλον ὅτι τοῦ περὶ ἅπαντα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly for the sake of all.
ΞΕ. τί δʼ αὖ νῦν ἡμῖν ἡ περὶ τοῦ πολιτικοῦ ζήτησις;
STRANGER: And what about our present inquiry concerning the statesman?
ἕνεκα αὐτοῦ τούτου προβέβληται μᾶλλον ἢ τοῦ περὶ πάντα διαλεκτικωτέροις γίγνεσθαι;
Has it been proposed for the sake of this very man rather than for the sake of our becoming more dialectical concerning all things?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ τοῦτο δῆλον ὅτι τοῦ περὶ πάντα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: This also is clearly for the sake of all.
ΞΕ. ἦ που τὸν τῆς ὑφαντικῆς γε λόγον αὐτῆς ταύτης ἕνεκα θηρεύειν οὐδεὶς ἂν ἐθελήσειεν νοῦν ἔχων· ἀλλʼ οἶμαι τοὺς πλείστους λέληθεν ὅτι τοῖς μὲν τῶν ὄντων ῥᾳδίως καταμαθεῖν αἰσθηταί τινες ὁμοιότητες πεφύκασιν, ἃς οὐδὲν χαλεπὸν δηλοῦν, ὅταν αὐτῶν τις βουληθῇ τῷ λόγον αἰτοῦντι περί του μὴ μετὰ πραγμάτων ἀλλὰ χωρὶς λόγου ῥᾳδίως ἐνδείξασθαι· τοῖς δʼ αὖ μεγίστοις οὖσι καὶ τιμιωτάτοις οὐκ ἔστιν εἴδωλον οὐδὲν πρὸς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους εἰργασμένον ἐναργῶς, οὗ δειχθέντος τὴν τοῦ πυνθανομένου ψυχὴν ὁ βουλόμενος ἀποπληρῶσαι, πρὸς τῶν αἰσθήσεών τινα προσαρμόττων, ἱκανῶς πληρώσει.
STRANGER: Surely no one of sound mind would wish to hunt down the definition of weaving for its own sake; but I think it has escaped the notice of most people that for some of the things that exist there are by nature certain sensible likenesses easy to understand, which it is not at all difficult to show, whenever anyone wants to exhibit them easily to someone who asks for an account of something, without trouble, and without a verbal explanation; whereas for the greatest and most honorable things that exist, there is no image made clearly visible to human beings, by showing which, he who wishes to satisfy the soul of the inquirer, fitting it to one of the senses, will sufficiently satisfy it.
§286ΞΕ. διὸ δεῖ μελετᾶν λόγον ἑκάστου δυνατὸν εἶναι δοῦναι καὶ δέξασθαι· τὰ γὰρ ἀσώματα, κάλλιστα ὄντα καὶ μέγιστα, λόγῳ μόνον ἄλλῳ δὲ οὐδενὶ σαφῶς δείκνυται, τούτων δὲ ἕνεκα πάντʼ ἐστὶ τὰ νῦν λεγόμενα.
STRANGER: Therefore, one must practice being able to give and receive an account of each thing; for the incorporeal things, being the most beautiful and greatest, are clearly shown by reason alone and by nothing else, and all that is now being said is for the sake of these things.
ῥᾴων δʼ ἐν τοῖς ἐλάττοσιν ἡ μελέτη παντὸς πέρι μᾶλλον ἢ περὶ τὰ μείζω.
But practice concerning anything is easier in lesser matters than in greater ones.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κάλλιστʼ εἶπες.
YOUNG SOCRATES: You have spoken most beautifully.
ΞΕ. ὧν τοίνυν χάριν ἅπανθʼ ἡμῖν ταῦτʼ ἐρρήθη περὶ τούτων, μνησθῶμεν.
STRANGER: Let us then remember the reasons for which all these things have been said by us concerning them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τίνων;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What reasons?
ΞΕ. ταύτης τε οὐχ ἥκιστα αὐτῆς ἕνεκα τῆς δυσχερείας ἣν περὶ τὴν μακρολογίαν τὴν περὶ τὴν ὑφαντικὴν ἀπεδεξάμεθα δυσχερῶς, καὶ τὴν περὶ τὴν τοῦ παντὸς ἀνείλιξιν καὶ τὴν τοῦ σοφιστοῦ πέρι τῆς τοῦ μὴ ὄντος οὐσίας, ἐννοοῦντες ὡς ἔσχε μῆκος πλέον, καὶ ἐπὶ τούτοις δὴ πᾶσιν ἐπεπλήξαμεν ἡμῖν αὐτοῖς, δείσαντες μὴ περίεργα ἅμα καὶ μακρὰ λέγοιμεν.
STRANGER: Not least for the sake of this very annoyance which we reluctantly accepted concerning the long-windedness about weaving, and that about the unfolding of the universe, and that about the sophist concerning the essence of non-being, reflecting how it had excessive length; and indeed because of all these things we reproached ourselves, fearing lest we were speaking at once superfluously and at length.
ἵνʼ οὖν εἰς αὖθις μηδὲν πάσχωμεν τοιοῦτον, τούτων ἕνεκα πάντων τὰ πρόσθε νῷν εἰρῆσθαι φάθι.
In order, therefore, that we may suffer nothing of the kind in the future, agree that all the foregoing was spoken for all these reasons.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ταῦτʼ ἔσται.
YOUNG SOCRATES: So it shall be.
λέγε ἑξῆς μόνον.
Only say what comes next.
ΞΕ. λέγω τοίνυν ὅτι χρὴ δὴ μεμνημένους ἐμὲ καὶ σὲ τῶν νῦν εἰρημένων τόν τε ψόγον ἑκάστοτε καὶ ἔπαινον ποιεῖσθαι βραχύτητος ἅμα καὶ μήκους ὧν ἂν ἀεὶ πέρι λέγωμεν, μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα τὰ μήκη κρίνοντες ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸ τῆς μετρητικῆς μέρος ὃ τότε ἔφαμεν δεῖν μεμνῆσθαι, πρὸς τὸ πρέπον.
STRANGER: I say, then, that you and I, remembering what has now been said, must on each occasion make our blame and praise of the brevity and length of whatever we may be discussing, not by judging their lengths relative to each other, but according to that part of the art of measurement which we said then we must remember, namely relative to the fitting.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Correct.