§283ΞΕ. ὅσα δέ γε αὖ τὴν μὲν συστροφὴν χαύνην λαμβάνει, τῇ δὲ τοῦ στήμονος ἐμπλέξει πρὸς τὴν τῆς γνάψεως ὁλκὴν ἐμμέτρως τὴν μαλακότητα ἴσχει, ταῦτʼ ἄρα κρόκην μὲν τὰ νηθέντα, τὴν δὲ ἐπιτεταγμένην αὐτοῖς εἶναι τέχνην τὴν κροκονητικὴν φῶμεν.
STRANGER: And on the other hand, for all those which receive a loose twisting, but in the intertwining with the warp hold a softness appropriate to the pull of the fulling process—of these spun yarns, let us call them the 'woof', and the art assigned to them 'woof-spinning'.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθότατα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Very correct.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν τό γε τῆς ὑφαντικῆς μέρος ὃ προυθέμεθα, παντί που δῆλον ἤδη.
STRANGER: And indeed, the part of weaving which we set before ourselves is surely now clear to everyone.
τὸ γὰρ συγκριτικῆς τῆς ἐν ταλασιουργίᾳ μόριον ὅταν εὐθυπλοκίᾳ κρόκης καὶ στήμονος ἀπεργάζηται πλέγμα, τὸ μὲν πλεχθὲν σύμπαν ἐσθῆτα ἐρεᾶν, τὴν δʼ ἐπὶ τούτῳ τέχνην οὖσαν προσαγορεύομεν ὑφαντικήν.
For when the part of the combining art in wool-working produces a web by the straight-intertwining of woof and warp, we call the whole web a woolen garment, and the art over this, 'weaving'.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθότατα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Very correct.
ΞΕ. εἶεν·
STRANGER: Very well.
τί δή ποτε οὖν οὐκ εὐθὺς ἀπεκρινάμεθα πλεκτικὴν εἶναι κρόκης καὶ στήμονος ὑφαντικήν, ἀλλὰ περιήλθομεν ἐν κύκλῳ πάμπολλα διοριζόμενοι μάτην;
Why on earth, then, did we not answer directly that weaving is the intertwining of woof and warp, but went around in a circle, making so many distinctions in vain?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὔκουν ἔμοιγε, ὦ ξένε, μάτην οὐδὲν τῶν ῥηθέντων ἔδοξε ῥηθῆναι.
YOUNG SOCRATES: To me at least, Stranger, none of the things spoken seemed to have been spoken in vain.
ΞΕ. καὶ θαυμαστόν γε οὐδέν·
STRANGER: And that is not at all surprising.
ἀλλὰ τάχʼ ἄν, ὦ μακάριε, δόξειε.
But perhaps, my happy friend, it might seem so.
πρὸς δὴ τὸ νόσημα τὸ τοιοῦτον, ἂν ἄρα πολλάκις ὕστερον ἐπίῃ—θαυμαστὸν γὰρ οὐδέν—λόγον ἄκουσόν τινα προσήκοντα περὶ πάντων τῶν τοιούτων ῥηθῆναι.
Against such a disease, if indeed it should often come upon us hereafter—for that is not at all surprising—hear a certain appropriate discussion to be spoken concerning all such matters.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. λέγε μόνον.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Only speak.
ΞΕ. πρῶτον τοίνυν ἴδωμεν πᾶσαν τήν τε ὑπερβολὴν καὶ τὴν ἔλλειψιν, ἵνα κατὰ λόγον ἐπαινῶμεν καὶ ψέγωμεν τὰ μακρότερα τοῦ δέοντος ἑκάστοτε λεγόμενα καὶ τἀναντία περὶ τὰς τοιάσδε διατριβάς.
STRANGER: First, then, let us look at all excess and deficiency, so that we may praise and blame in accordance with reason the things spoken longer than necessary on each occasion, and the opposites, concerning such discussions.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν χρή.
YOUNG SOCRATES: We must indeed.
ΞΕ. περὶ δὴ τούτων αὐτῶν ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν οἶμαι γιγνόμενος ὀρθῶς ἂν γίγνοιτο.
STRANGER: Our discussion, I think, would be rightly conducted if it were about these very things.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τίνων;
YOUNG SOCRATES: About what things?
ΞΕ. μήκους τε πέρι καὶ βραχύτητος καὶ πάσης ὑπεροχῆς τε καὶ ἐλλείψεως·
STRANGER: About length and shortness, and every excess and deficiency; for surely the art of measurement is concerned with all these.
ἡ γάρ που μετρητικὴ περὶ πάντʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί. ΞΕ. διέλωμεν τοίνυν αὐτὴν δύο μέρη·
STRANGER: Let us, then, divide it into two parts; for it is indeed necessary for that towards which we are now hastening.
δεῖ γὰρ δὴ πρὸς ὃ νῦν σπεύδομεν. ΝΕ. ΣΩ. λέγοις ἂν τὴν διαίρεσιν ὅπῃ.
YOUNG SOCRATES: You may tell me how the division is made.
ΞΕ. τῇδε· τὸ μὲν κατὰ τὴν πρὸς ἄλληλα μεγέθους καὶ σμικρότητος κοινωνίαν, τὸ δὲ κατὰ τὴν τῆς γενέσεως ἀναγκαίαν οὐσίαν.
STRANGER: In this way: one according to the relation of greatness and smallness to each other, and the other according to the necessary being of generation.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς λέγεις;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?
ΞΕ. ἆρʼ οὐ κατὰ φύσιν δοκεῖ σοι τὸ μεῖζον μηδενὸς ἑτέρου δεῖν μεῖζον λέγειν ἢ τοῦ ἐλάττονος, καὶ τοὔλαττον αὖ τοῦ μείζονος ἔλαττον, ἄλλου δὲ μηδενός;
STRANGER: Does it not seem to you to be in accordance with nature that we must say the greater is greater than nothing other than the less, and the less in turn less than the greater, and than nothing else?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἔμοιγε.
YOUNG SOCRATES: To me it does.
ΞΕ. τί δέ;
STRANGER: What then?
τὸ τὴν τοῦ μετρίου φύσιν ὑπερβάλλον καὶ ὑπερβαλλόμενον ὑπʼ αὐτῆς ἐν λόγοις εἴτε καὶ ἐν ἔργοις ἆρʼ οὐκ αὖ λέξομεν ὡς ὄντως γιγνόμενον, ἐν ᾧ καὶ διαφέρουσι μάλιστα ἡμῶν οἵ τε κακοὶ καὶ ἀγαθοί;
Shall we not also say that what exceeds and is exceeded by the nature of the moderate, whether in words or in deeds, really comes to be, in which respect those of us who are bad and good differ most of all?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. φαίνεται.
YOUNG SOCRATES: So it appears.
ΞΕ. διττὰς ἄρα ταύτας οὐσίας καὶ κρίσεις τοῦ μεγάλου καὶ τοῦ σμικροῦ θετέον, ἀλλʼ οὐχ ὡς ἔφαμεν ἄρτι πρὸς ἄλληλα μόνον δεῖν, ἀλλʼ ὥσπερ νῦν εἴρηται μᾶλλον τὴν μὲν πρὸς ἄλληλα λεκτέον, τὴν δʼ αὖ πρὸς τὸ μέτριον·
STRANGER: Then we must posit these two kinds of being and judgment of the great and the small, and not, as we said just now, that they must be only relative to each other, but rather, as has now been said, the one must be spoken of as relative to each other, and the other as relative to the moderate.
οὗ δὲ ἕνεκα, μαθεῖν ἆρʼ ἂν βουλοίμεθα;
Do we wish to learn for what purpose this is necessary?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.