§281ΞΕ. ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἔστι πω τέλεον, ὦ παῖ, τοῦτο λελεγμένον.
STRANGER: But this has not yet been completely stated, my boy.
ὁ γὰρ ἐν ἀρχῇ τῆς τῶν ἱματίων ἐργασίας ἁπτόμενος τοὐναντίον ὑφῇ δρᾶν φαίνεται.
For the one who lays hold of the making of clothes at the beginning seems to do the opposite of weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How?
ΞΕ. τὸ μὲν τῆς ὑφῆς συμπλοκή τίς ἐστί που.
STRANGER: Weaving, surely, is a kind of intertwining.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.
ΞΕ. τὸ δέ γε τῶν συνεστώτων καὶ συμπεπιλημένων διαλυτική.
STRANGER: But that other process is the dissolution of things that are compacted and felted together.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον δή;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What sort of thing is that indeed?
ΞΕ. τὸ τῆς τοῦ ξαίνοντος τέχνης ἔργον.
STRANGER: The work of the carder's art.
ἢ τὴν ξαντικὴν τολμήσομεν ὑφαντικὴν καὶ τὸν ξάντην ὡς ὄντα ὑφάντην καλεῖν;
Or shall we dare to call carding weaving, and the carder a weaver?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐδαμῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: By no means.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν τήν γε αὖ στήμονος ἐργαστικὴν καὶ κρόκης εἴ τις ὑφαντικὴν προσαγορεύει, παράδοξόν τε καὶ ψεῦδος ὄνομα λέγει.
STRANGER: And indeed, further, if anyone addresses the art of making warp and woof as weaving, they speak an absurd and false name.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How indeed could they not?
ΞΕ. τί δέ;
STRANGER: What then?
κναφευτικὴν σύμπασαν καὶ τὴν ἀκεστικὴν πότερα μηδεμίαν ἐπιμέλειαν μηδέ τινα θεραπείαν ἐσθῆτος θῶμεν, ἢ καὶ ταύτας πάσας ὡς ὑφαντικὰς λέξομεν;
Shall we lay down that fulling as a whole and the art of mending provide no care and no treatment of clothing, or shall we speak of all these also as weaving?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐδαμῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: By no means.
ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ μὴν τῆς γε θεραπείας ἀμφισβητήσουσιν αὗται σύμπασαι καὶ τῆς γενέσεως τῆς τῶν ἱματίων τῇ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς δυνάμει, μέγιστον μὲν μέρος ἐκείνῃ διδοῦσαι, μεγάλα δὲ καὶ σφίσιν αὐταῖς ἀπονέμουσαι.
STRANGER: And yet all these will dispute with the power of weaving for the treatment and the generation of clothes, giving the greatest part to that art, but claiming large parts for themselves too.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ γε.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.
ΞΕ. πρὸς τοίνυν ταύταις ἔτι τὰς τῶν ἐργαλείων δημιουργοὺς τέχνας, διʼ ὧν ἀποτελεῖται τὰ τῆς ὑφῆς ἔργα, δοκεῖν χρὴ τό γε συναιτίας εἶναι προσποιήσασθαι παντὸς ὑφάσματος.
STRANGER: In addition to these, then, we must think that the arts that make the tools through which the works of weaving are completed will claim to be at least co-causes of every fabric.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθότατα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Very correct.
ΞΕ. πότερον οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ περὶ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς λόγος, οὗ προειλόμεθα μέρους, ἱκανῶς ἔσται διωρισμένος, ἐὰν ἄρʼ αὐτὴν τῶν ἐπιμελειῶν ὁπόσαι περὶ τὴν ἐρεᾶν ἐσθῆτα, εἰς τὴν καλλίστην καὶ μεγίστην πασῶν τιθῶμεν· ἢ λέγοιμεν μὲν ἄν τι ἀληθές, οὐ μὴν σαφές γε οὐδὲ τέλεον, πρὶν ἂν καὶ ταύτας αὐτῆς πάσας περιέλωμεν;
STRANGER: Will our discussion of weaving, the part we chose, be sufficiently defined if we place it as the finest and greatest of all the cares concerned with woolen clothing, or would we be speaking something true, but not clear nor complete, until we strip all these from it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Correct.
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν μετὰ ταῦτα ποιητέον ὃ λέγομεν, ἵνʼ ἐφεξῆς ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ἴῃ;
STRANGER: Then we must do what we say next, so that our discussion may proceed in order?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How could we not?
ΞΕ. πρῶτον μὲν τοίνυν δύο τέχνας οὔσας περὶ πάντα τὰ δρώμενα θεασώμεθα.
STRANGER: First, then, let us look at two arts being concerned with all things that are done.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τίνας;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Which ones?
ΞΕ. τὴν μὲν γενέσεως οὖσαν συναίτιον, τὴν δʼ αὐτὴν αἰτίαν.
STRANGER: One being a co-cause of generation, and the other being the cause itself.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How?
ΞΕ. ὅσαι μὲν τὸ πρᾶγμα αὐτὸ μὴ δημιουργοῦσι, ταῖς δὲ δημιουργούσαις ὄργανα παρασκευάζουσιν, ὧν μὴ παραγενομένων οὐκ ἄν ποτε ἐργασθείη τὸ προστεταγμένον ἑκάστῃ τῶν τεχνῶν, ταύτας μὲν συναιτίους, τὰς δὲ αὐτὸ τὸ πρᾶγμα ἀπεργαζομένας αἰτίας.
STRANGER: Those which do not manufacture the thing itself but prepare tools for those which do—tools without whose presence the task assigned to each of the arts could never be worked out—these we call co-causes; but those which produce the thing itself, we call causes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἔχει γοῦν λόγον.
YOUNG SOCRATES: That makes sense, at any rate.
ΞΕ. μετὰ τοῦτο δὴ τὰς μὲν περί τε ἀτράκτους καὶ κερκίδας καὶ ὁπόσα ἄλλα ὄργανα τῆς περὶ τὰ ἀμφιέσματα γενέσεως κοινωνεῖ, πάσας συναιτίους εἴπωμεν, τὰς δὲ αὐτὰ θεραπευούσας καὶ δημιουργούσας αἰτίας;
STRANGER: After this, then, shall we call all those arts concerned with spindles and shuttles and whatever other tools share in the generation of clothing 'co-causes,' and those which care for and manufacture the clothing itself 'causes'?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθότατα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Very correct.
§282ΞΕ. τῶν αἰτιῶν δὴ πλυντικὴν μὲν καὶ ἀκεστικὴν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν περὶ ταῦτα θεραπευτικήν, πολλῆς οὔσης τῆς κοσμητικῆς, τοὐνταῦθα αὐτῆς μόριον εἰκὸς μάλιστα περιλαμβάνειν ὀνομάζοντας πᾶν τῇ τέχνῃ τῇ κναφευτικῇ.
STRANGER: Now, of the causes, it is reasonable to encompass washing, mending, and all the care concerned with these—although adornment is a large thing—here as a part of it, naming the whole as the fuller's art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καλῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Fine.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν ξαντική γε καὶ νηστικὴ καὶ πάντα αὖ τὰ περὶ τὴν ποίησιν αὐτὴν τῆς ἐσθῆτος ἧς λέγομεν μέρη, μία τίς ἐστι τέχνη τῶν ὑπὸ πάντων λεγομένων, ἡ ταλασιουργική.
STRANGER: And further, carding and spinning, and all the parts concerned with the actual making of the clothing we are speaking of, belong to one single art called by everyone 'wool-working'.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How indeed could it not be?
ΞΕ. τῆς δὴ ταλασιουργικῆς δύο τμήματά ἐστον, καὶ τούτοιν ἑκάτερον ἅμα δυοῖν πεφύκατον τέχναιν μέρη.
STRANGER: Now, of wool-working, there are two sections, and each of these happens to be a part of two arts at the same time.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How?
ΞΕ. τὸ μὲν ξαντικὸν καὶ τὸ τῆς κερκιστικῆς ἥμισυ καὶ ὅσα τὰ συγκείμενα ἀπʼ ἀλλήλων ἀφίστησι, πᾶν τοῦτο ὡς ἓν φράζειν τῆς τε ταλασιουργίας αὐτῆς ἐστί που, καὶ μεγάλα τινὲ κατὰ πάντα ἡμῖν ἤστην τέχνα, ἡ συγκριτική τε καὶ διακριτική.
STRANGER: Carding, and half of the shuttle-play, and all those processes that separate what is compacted from one another—to state all this as one, is surely a part of wool-working itself, and we had two great arts in every way: the combining art and the discriminating art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.
ΞΕ. τῆς τοίνυν διακριτικῆς ἥ τε ξαντικὴ καὶ τὰ νυνδὴ ῥηθέντα ἅπαντά ἐστιν· ἡ γὰρ ἐν ἐρίοις τε καὶ στήμοσι διακριτική, κερκίδι μὲν ἄλλον τρόπον γιγνομένη, χερσὶ δὲ ἕτερον, ἔσχεν ὅσα ἀρτίως ὀνόματα ἐρρήθη.
STRANGER: So, the carding and all the things just now mentioned belong to the discriminating art; for the discriminating art in wool and warp, taking place in one way with the shuttle and in another with the hands, has acquired all the names that were just now spoken.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Absolutely.
ΞΕ. αὖθις δὴ πάλιν συγκριτικῆς μόριον ἅμα καὶ ταλασιουργίας ἐν αὐτῇ γιγνόμενον λάβωμεν· ὅσα δὲ τῆς διακριτικῆς ἦν αὐτόθι, μεθιῶμεν σύμπαντα, δίχα τέμνοντες τὴν ταλασιουργίαν διακριτικῷ τε καὶ συγκριτικῷ τμήματι.
STRANGER: Let us, then, take up again a part that belongs to the combining art and is at the same time produced within wool-working; and let us dismiss all those parts which belonged to the discriminating art there, cutting wool-working in two into a discriminating and a combining section.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. διῃρήσθω.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Let it be so divided.
ΞΕ. τὸ συγκριτικὸν τοίνυν αὖ σοι καὶ ταλασιουργικὸν ἅμα μόριον, ὦ Σώκρατες, διαιρετέον, εἴπερ ἱκανῶς μέλλομεν τὴν προρρηθεῖσαν ὑφαντικὴν αἱρήσειν.
STRANGER: Then, Socrates, that section which is combining and at the same time wool-working must be divided by you, if indeed we are to sufficiently grasp the aforementioned art of weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν χρή.
YOUNG SOCRATES: We must indeed.
ΞΕ. χρὴ μὲν οὖν· καὶ λέγωμέν γε αὐτῆς τὸ μὲν εἶναι στρεπτικόν, τὸ δὲ συμπλεκτικόν.
STRANGER: We must indeed; and let us say that of this art, one part is twisting, and the other is intertwining.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν μανθάνω;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Do I then understand?
δοκεῖς γάρ μοι τὸ περὶ τὴν τοῦ στήμονος ἐργασίαν λέγειν στρεπτικόν.
For you seem to me to call the process concerned with the making of the warp 'twisting'.
ΞΕ. οὐ μόνον γε, ἀλλὰ καὶ κρόκης· ἢ γένεσιν ἄστροφόν τινα αὐτῆς εὑρήσομεν;
STRANGER: Not only that, but of the woof too; or shall we find some untwisted generation of it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐδαμῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: By no means.
ΞΕ. διόρισαι δὴ καὶ τούτοιν ἑκάτερον· ἴσως γὰρ ὁ διορισμὸς ἔγκαιρος ἄν σοι γένοιτο.
STRANGER: Define each of these two, then; for perhaps the definition would be opportune for you.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῇ;
YOUNG SOCRATES: In what way?
ΞΕ. τῇδε· τῶν περὶ ξαντικὴν ἔργων μηκυνθέν τε καὶ σχὸν πλάτος λέγομεν εἶναι κάταγμά τι;
STRANGER: In this way: do we say that what has been lengthened and has acquired width from the carding processes is a roll of wool?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.
ΞΕ. τούτου δὴ τὸ μὲν ἀτράκτῳ τε στραφὲν καὶ στερεὸν νῆμα γενόμενον στήμονα μὲν φάθι τὸ νῆμα, τὴν δὲ ἀπευθύνουσαν αὐτὸ τέχνην εἶναι στημονονητικήν.
STRANGER: Of this, then, say that the yarn which is twisted by the spindle and becomes a solid thread is the 'warp', and the art that straightens it is 'warp-spinning'.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Correct.