Plato · Statesman §259-260

Division of Cognitive Science and Kingship as Self-Commanding

Passage 2 of 34 · Greek

Summary

The Stranger argues that the knowledge of the king, statesman, and householder belongs to a single 'cognitive science'. He then divides cognitive science into 'judging' and 'commanding', and further distinguishes commanding into 'second-hand' transmission and 'self-commanding', placing the king in the self-commanding branch.

§259ΞΕ. τῇδε.

STRANGER: In this way.

εἴ τῴ τις τῶν δημοσιευόντων ἰατρῶν ἱκανὸς συμβουλεύειν ἰδιωτεύων αὐτός, ἆρʼ οὐκ ἀναγκαῖον αὐτῷ προσαγορεύεσθαι τοὔνομα τῆς τέχνης ταὐτὸν ὅπερ ᾧ συμβουλεύει;

If someone who is a private citizen is capable of advising one of those doctors who practice publicly, is it not necessary that the same name of the art be applied to him as to the one whom he advises?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.

ΞΕ. τί δʼ;

STRANGER: What then?

ὅστις βασιλεύοντι χώρας ἀνδρὶ παραινεῖν δεινὸς ἰδιώτης ὢν αὐτός, ἆρʼ οὐ φήσομεν ἔχειν αὐτὸν τὴν ἐπιστήμην ἣν ἔδει τὸν ἄρχοντα αὐτὸν κεκτῆσθαι;

If a private citizen is skilled in advising a man who rules a country, shall we not say that he himself possesses the science which the ruler himself ought to have acquired?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. φήσομεν.

YOUNG SOCRATES: We shall.

ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ μὴν ἥ γε ἀληθινοῦ βασιλέως βασιλική;

STRANGER: But is not the science of a true king kingship?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.

ΞΕ. ταύτην δὲ ὁ κεκτημένος οὐκ, ἄντε ἄρχων ἄντε ἰδιώτης ὢν τυγχάνῃ, πάντως κατά γε τὴν τέχνην αὐτὴν βασιλικὸς ὀρθῶς προσρηθήσεται;

STRANGER: And will not the one who has acquired this, whether he happens to be a ruler or a private citizen, be rightly addressed as kingly in any case, according to the art itself?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. δίκαιον γοῦν.

YOUNG SOCRATES: That is certainly just.

ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν οἰκονόμος γε καὶ δεσπότης ταὐτόν.

STRANGER: And indeed, the householder and the master are the same.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;

YOUNG SOCRATES: Why not?

ΞΕ. τί δέ;

STRANGER: What then?

μεγάλης σχῆμα οἰκήσεως ἢ σμικρᾶς αὖ πόλεως ὄγκος μῶν τι πρὸς ἀρχὴν διοίσετον;

Will the size of a large household or, on the other hand, the bulk of a small city make any difference with respect to ruling?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐδέν.

YOUNG SOCRATES: None.

ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν, ὃ νυνδὴ διεσκοπούμεθα, φανερὸν ὡς ἐπιστήμη μία περὶ πάντʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτα· ταύτην δὲ εἴτε βασιλικὴν εἴτε πολιτικὴν εἴτε οἰκονομικήν τις ὀνομάζει, μηδὲν αὐτῷ διαφερώμεθα.

STRANGER: Therefore, what we were just now investigating is clear: that there is one science concerning all these; and whether someone names this kingly, statesmanlike, or householding, let us not differ with him at all.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί γάρ;

YOUNG SOCRATES: Why indeed?

ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ μὴν τόδε γε δῆλον, ὡς βασιλεὺς ἅπας χερσὶ καὶ σύμπαντι τῷ σώματι σμίκρʼ ἄττα εἰς τὸ κατέχειν τὴν ἀρχὴν δύναται πρὸς τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς σύνεσιν καὶ ῥώμην.

STRANGER: But this at least is clear, that any king can do very little with his hands and his whole body to maintain his rule, compared to the understanding and strength of his soul.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. δῆλον.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Clear.

ΞΕ. τῆς δὴ γνωστικῆς μᾶλλον ἢ τῆς χειροτεχνικῆς καὶ ὅλως πρακτικῆς βούλει τὸν βασιλέα φῶμεν οἰκειότερον εἶναι;

STRANGER: Shall we then say that the king is more closely related to cognitive science than to handicraft and practical science in general?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;

YOUNG SOCRATES: Indeed.

ΞΕ. τὴν ἄρα πολιτικὴν καὶ πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλικὴν καὶ βασιλικὸν εἰς ταὐτὸν ὡς ἓν πάντα ταῦτα συνθήσομεν;

STRANGER: Shall we then combine the political science and the statesman, the kingly science and the king, into the same as all being one?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. δῆλον.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Clear.

ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν πορευοίμεθʼ ἂν ἑξῆς, εἰ μετὰ ταῦτα τὴν γνωστικὴν διοριζοίμεθα;

STRANGER: Then should we proceed in order, if after this we define cognitive science?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ γε.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.

ΞΕ. πρόσεχε δὴ τὸν νοῦν ἂν ἄρα ἐν αὐτῇ τινα διαφυὴν κατανοήσωμεν.

STRANGER: Pay attention then, to see if we can perceive some division in it.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. φράζε ποίαν.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Tell me what kind.

ΞΕ. τοιάνδε.

STRANGER: This kind.

λογιστική πού τις ἡμῖν ἦν τέχνη.

We had some art of calculation, I suppose.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.

ΞΕ. τῶν γνωστικῶν γε οἶμαι παντάπασι τεχνῶν.

STRANGER: It belongs entirely, I think, to the cognitive arts.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;

YOUNG SOCRATES: How could it not?

ΞΕ. γνούσῃ δὴ λογιστικῇ τὴν ἐν τοῖς ἀριθμοῖς διαφορὰν μῶν τι πλέον ἔργον δώσομεν ἢ τὰ γνωσθέντα κρῖναι;

STRANGER: Shall we assign to the art of calculation, which has known the difference in numbers, any further task than to judge what has been known?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;

YOUNG SOCRATES: Why should we?

ΞΕ. καὶ γὰρ ἀρχιτέκτων γε πᾶς οὐκ αὐτὸς ἐργατικὸς ἀλλʼ ἐργατῶν ἄρχων.

STRANGER: For indeed every master builder is not himself a worker, but a ruler of workers.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ναί.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.

ΞΕ. παρεχόμενός γέ που γνῶσιν ἀλλʼ οὐ χειρουργίαν.

STRANGER: Providing, I suppose, knowledge but not handiwork.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὕτως.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Just so.

§260ΞΕ. δικαίως δὴ μετέχειν ἂν λέγοιτο τῆς γνωστικῆς ἐπιστήμης.

STRANGER: He would then be rightly said to participate in cognitive science.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ γε.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.

ΞΕ. τούτῳ δέ γε οἶμαι προσήκει κρίναντι μὴ τέλος ἔχειν μηδʼ ἀπηλλάχθαι, καθάπερ ὁ λογιστὴς ἀπήλλακτο, προστάττειν δὲ ἑκάστοις τῶν ἐργατῶν τό γε πρόσφορον ἕως ἂν ἀπεργάσωνται τὸ προσταχθέν.

STRANGER: But for him, I think, having judged, it is not fitting to have finished or to go away, as the calculator did, but to command each of the workers what is suitable until they have completed what was commanded.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Right.

ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν γνωστικαὶ μὲν αἵ τε τοιαῦται σύμπασαι καὶ ὁπόσαι συνέπονται τῇ λογιστικῇ, κρίσει δὲ καὶ ἐπιτάξει διαφέρετον ἀλλήλοιν τούτω τὼ γένη;

STRANGER: Are they not both cognitive, then, both all such arts and those that follow calculation, but do these two classes differ from each other in judgment and command?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. φαίνεσθον.

YOUNG SOCRATES: They seem to.

ΞΕ. ἆρʼ οὖν συμπάσης τῆς γνωστικῆς εἰ τὸ μὲν ἐπιτακτικὸν μέρος, τὸ δὲ κριτικὸν διαιρούμενοι προσείποιμεν, ἐμμελῶς ἂν φαῖμεν διῃρῆσθαι;

STRANGER: If then we divide the whole of cognitive science and call one part command-giving and the other judgment-giving, should we say we have divided it appropriately?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν δόξαν.

YOUNG SOCRATES: According to my opinion, yes.

ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῖς γε κοινῇ τι πράττουσιν ἀγαπητὸν ὁμονοεῖν.

STRANGER: But indeed, for those who do something in common, it is desirable to agree.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;

YOUNG SOCRATES: How not?

ΞΕ. τούτου τοίνυν μέχριπερ ἂν αὐτοὶ κοινωνῶμεν, ἐατέον τά γε τῶν ἄλλων δοξάσματα χαίρειν.

STRANGER: As long, then, as we ourselves share in this agreement, we must let the opinions of others go on their way.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;

YOUNG SOCRATES: Why not?

ΞΕ. φέρε δή, τούτοιν τοῖν τέχναιν ἡμῖν τὸν βασιλικὸν ἐν ποτέρᾳ θετέον;

STRANGER: Come then, in which of these two arts must we place the king?

ἆρʼ ἐν τῇ κριτικῇ, καθάπερ τινὰ θεατήν, ἢ μᾶλλον τῆς ἐπιτακτικῆς ὡς ὄντα αὐτὸν τέχνης θήσομεν, δεσπόζοντά γε;

Shall we place him in the judging art, like some spectator, or rather in the commanding art, as he is indeed a master?

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὐ μᾶλλον;

YOUNG SOCRATES: How could it not be rather in the latter?

ΞΕ. τὴν ἐπιτακτικὴν δὴ τέχνην πάλιν ἂν εἴη θεατέον εἴ πῃ διέστηκεν.

STRANGER: Then we must examine the commanding art again to see if it is divided in some way.

καί μοι δοκεῖ τῇδέ πῃ, καθάπερ ἡ τῶν καπήλων τέχνη τῆς τῶν αὐτοπωλῶν διώρισται τέχνης, καὶ τὸ βασιλικὸν γένος ἔοικεν ἀπὸ τοῦ τῶν κηρύκων γένους ἀφωρίσθαι.

And it seems to me to be divided in this way, just as the art of retail-sellers is distinguished from that of self-sellers, and the kingly class seems to be distinguished from the class of heralds.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;

YOUNG SOCRATES: How?

ΞΕ. πωληθέντα που πρότερον ἔργα ἀλλότρια παραδεχόμενοι δεύτερον πωλοῦσι πάλιν οἱ κάπηλοι.

STRANGER: Having received elsewhere works that were previously sold, the retail-sellers sell them again second-hand.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite so.

ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν καὶ τὸ κηρυκικὸν φῦλον ἐπιταχθέντʼ ἀλλότρια νοήματα παραδεχόμενον αὐτὸ δεύτερον ἐπιτάττει πάλιν ἑτέροις.

STRANGER: So too the heraldic tribe, having received the thoughts of others which have been commanded, itself commands them again second-hand to others.

ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθέστατα.

YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.

ΞΕ. τί οὖν;

STRANGER: What then?

εἰς ταὐτὸν μείξομεν βασιλικὴν ἑρμηνευτικῇ, κελευστικῇ, μαντικῇ, κηρυκικῇ, καὶ πολλαῖς ἑτέραις τούτων τέχναις συγγενέσιν, αἳ σύμπασαι τό γʼ ἐπιτάττειν ἔχουσιν;

Shall we mix the kingly art into the same with the interpreting, bidding, divining, and heraldic arts, and many other arts akin to these, all of which contain command-giving?

ἢ βούλει, καθάπερ ᾐκάζομεν νυνδή, καὶ τοὔνομα παρεικάσωμεν, ἐπειδὴ καὶ σχεδὸν ἀνώνυμον ὂν τυγχάνει τὸ τῶν αὐτεπιτακτῶν γένος, καὶ ταύτῃ ταῦτα διελώμεθα, τὸ μὲν τῶν βασιλέων γένος εἰς τὴν αὐτεπιτακτικὴν θέντες, τοῦ δὲ ἄλλου παντὸς ἀμελήσαντες, ὄνομα ἕτερον αὐτοῖς παραχωρήσαντες θέσθαι τινά;

Or do you wish, just as we did just now, to make the name comparable as well, since the class of self-commanders happens to be practically nameless, and to divide them in this way, placing the class of kings in the self-commanding art, and neglecting all the rest, permitting someone else to give them another name?

τοῦ γὰρ ἄρχοντος ἕνεκα ἡμῖν ἡ μέθοδος ἦν ἀλλʼ οὐχὶ τοῦ ἐναντίου.

For our method was for the sake of the ruler and not of his opposite.

Notes

259aεἴ τῴ τις τῶν δημοσιευόντων ἰατρῶν ἱκανὸς συμβουλεύειν ἰδιωτεύων αὐτός — The dative `τῴ` (τινι) refers to one of the public doctors, serving as the object of the infinitive `συμβουλεύειν`. The subject is `τις`, with which the participle `ἰδιωτεύων` and pronoun `αὐτός` agree, creating a contrast: "one who is himself a private citizen, yet capable of advising one of those practicing publicly."
259aτοὔνομα τῆς τέχνης ταὐτὸν ὅπερ ᾧ συμβουλεύει — The relative pronoun `ᾧ` involves the omission of its antecedent `ἐκείνῳ` and is attracted into the dative case governed by `συμβουλεύει`. This means "the same name of the art as that of the person whom he advises," indicating that the name of the art applied to the advisee (the actual doctor) should also apply to the adviser.
259cπρὸς τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς σύνεσιν καὶ ῥώμην — The preposition `πρός` here expresses comparison ("in comparison with," "compared to"). It contrasts the very small actions (`σμίκρʼ ἄττα`) a king can perform with his body against the understanding and strength of his soul.
260aἕως ἂν ἀπεργάσωνται — The conjunction `ἕως` accompanied by the particle `ἄν` and followed by the aorist subjunctive `ἀπεργάσωνται` forms an adverbial clause of limit, expressing a future achievement of purpose ("until they have completed").
260eσχεδὸν ἀνώνυμον ὂν τυγχάνει — The verb `τυγχάνω` with the supplementary participle `ὄν` emphasizes an actual state of affairs ("happens to be," "actually is"). Here, it points out that the class of self-commanders lacks a specific common name in ordinary language.

Cite this passage

Plato, Statesman §259-260. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg008.humanitext-grc2:259-260

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