§9AUG. dixit: Notum est omnibus catholicam fidem ita se habere, quod dominus noster, id est uirtus et sapientia dei et uerbum, per quod facta sunt omnia et sine quo factum est nihil, ad liberationem nostram hominem suscepit.
Aug. said: "It is known to all that the Catholic faith is so, that our Lord, that is, the power and wisdom of God and the Word, through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made, assumed man for our liberation.
in ipso homine, quem suscepit. demonstrauit illa, quae dicis.
In that man whom He assumed, He demonstrated those things which you say.
nos autem nunc de ipsius dei et ineffabilis maiestatis substantia quaerimus, utrum ei aliquid nocere possit. an non possit.
But we are now asking about the substance of God Himself and of His ineffable majesty, whether anything can harm Him, or cannot.
si -enim potest aliquid nocere ei, non est inuiolabilis.
For if anything can harm Him, He is not inviolable.
si non potest ei aliquid nocere, quid ei factura erat gens tenebrarum, contra quam dicitis bellum gestum esse a deo ante constitutionem mundi, in quo bello nos, id est animas, quas modo indigere liberatoris manifestum est.
But if nothing can harm Him, what was the nation of darkness going to do to Him, against which you say war was waged by God before the constitution of the world, in which war you assert that we, that is, the souls, who it is now manifest stand in need of a liberator, were mixed with every evil and entangled in death?
commixtas esse omni malo et morti inplicitas adseritis? redeo enim ad illud breuissimum: si poterat ei noceri, non est inuiolabilis; si non poterat, crudeliter huc nos misit, ut ista patiamur. FORT. dixit: Anima dei est, an non?\' §10AUG. dixit: Si iustum est, ut non interrogatis meis respondeatur et ego interroger, respondeo. FORT. dixit: Si in proprio agit anima, hoc a te quaero. §11AUG. dixit: Ego dicam quod interrogasti; tantum illud memineris te noluisse respondere interrogatis meis, me autem tuis respondere.
For I return to that shortest argument: if He could be harmed, He is not inviolable; if He could not, He cruelly sent us here to suffer these things." Fort. said: "Is the soul of God, or not?" Aug. said: "If it is just that my questions should not be answered and that I should be questioned, I will answer." Fort. said: "Whether the soul acts in its own domain, this I ask of you." Aug. said: "I will say what you asked; only remember this, that you refused to answer my questions, while I answer yours.
si quaeris, utrum a deo descenderit anima, magna quidem quaestio est; sed siue a deo descendit siue non, illud de anima respondeo non esse deum: aliud esse deum, aliud animam.
If you ask whether the soul descended from God, it is indeed a great question; but whether it descended from God or not, I answer regarding the soul that it is not God: God is one thing, the soul another.
deum esse inuiolabilem, incorruptibilem et inpenetrabilem et incoinquinabilem, et qui nulla ex parte corrumpi potest, et cui nulla ex parte noceri possit.
God is inviolable, corruptible, impenetrable, and uncontaminable, and who can be corrupted in no part, and harmed in no part.
animam uero uidemus et peccatricem esse et in aerumna uersari et ueritatem quaerere et liberatore indigere.
But we see that the soul is both sinful and subject to misery, and seeks the truth and stands in need of a liberator.
haec mutatio animae ostendit mihi, quod anima non sit deus.
This changeableness of the soul shows me that the soul is not God.
nam si anima substantia dei est, substantia dei errat, substantia dei corrumpitur, substantia dei uiolatur, substantia dei decipitur: quod nefas est dicere. FORT. dixit: Ergo negasti animam ex deo esse, quamdiu peccatis ac uitiis et mundanis rebus deseruit et errore ducitur, quod fieri non potest, aut ut deus hoc patiatur aut substantia eius.
For if the soul is the substance of God, then the substance of God errs, the substance of God is corrupted, the substance of God is violated, the substance of God is deceived—which it is a sin to say." Fort. said: "So you have denied that the soul is from God, as long as it serves sins and vices and worldly things, and is led by error, since it cannot be that either God or His substance should suffer this.
est enim deus incorruptibilis et substantia eius inmaculata est et sancta.
For God is incorruptible, and His substance is immaculate and holy.
hic uero quaeritur a uobis, utrum anima ex deo sit necne.
But what is asked of you here is whether the soul is from God or not.
quod nos fatemur et ostendimus ex saluatoris aduentu, ex ipsius sancta praedicatione, ex ipsius lectione. dum animis miseretur et secundum eius arbitrium anima uenisse dicitur, ut eandem de morte liberaret et perduceret eam ad aeternam gloriam et restitueret patri.
This we confess and show from the coming of the Savior, from His holy preaching, from His reading, since He has mercy on souls, and according to His will the soul is said to have come, that He might free it from death and lead it to eternal glory, and restore it to the Father.
quid uero de anima tu ipse dicis aut speras, utrum sit a deo, necne? et substantiam dei, ex qua neges esse animam, nullis passionibus posse subiacere?
But what do you yourself say or hope regarding the soul, whether it is from God or not?
§12AUG. dixit: Animam sic negaui esse substantiam dei ut negem esse illam deum, sed tamen ex deo auctore esse. quia facta est a deo. aliud est qui fecit, aliud quod fecit;
And do you say that the substance of God, from which you deny the soul to be, can be subject to no passions?" Aug. said: "I denied that the soul is the substance of God in such a way as to deny that it is God, but yet it is from God as its author, because it was made by God.
qui fecit, corruptibilis esse omnino non potest; quod autem fecit. omnimodo non potest aequale illi esse. qui fecit. FORT. dixit: Nec ego dixi animam similem esse deo.
The one who made is one thing, and what he made is another; the one who made can in no way be corruptible; but what he made can in no way be equal to him who made." Fort. said: "Nor did I say that the soul is like God.
sed quia dixisti facticiam esse animam et nihil praeter deum, quaero, undenam deus animae. substantiam adinuenit. §13AUG. dixit: Tantum memento me respondere ad ea, quae interrogas, te autem ad ea, quae interrogo, non respondere.
But because you said that the soul was made, and that there is nothing besides God, I ask, from where did God find the substance for the soul?" Aug. said: "Only remember that I answer to those things which you ask, but you do not answer to those things which I ask.
animam dico factam a deo, ut cetera omnia, quae a deo facta sunt, et inter illa, quae deus omnipotens fecit, principalem locum datum esse animae.
I say that the soul was made by God, as all other things which were made by God, and that among those things which almighty God made, the chief place was given to the soul.
si autem quaeris, unde deus. fecit animam, memento confiteri me tecum esse deum omnipotentem.
But if you ask from what God made the soul, remember that I confess with you that God is almighty.
omnipotens autem non est, qui quaerit adiuuari aliqua materia, unde faciat quod uelit.
But he is not almighty who seeks to be helped by some material from which he may make what he wants.
ex quo est consequens, ut secundum fidem nostram omnia, quae deus fecit per uerbum et sapientiam suam, de nihilo fecerit.
From which it follows, that according to our faith, all things which God made through His Word and His wisdom, He made out of nothing.
sic enim legimus: ipse iussit et facta sunt; ipse mandauit et constituta sunt. FORT. dixit: Ex iussione constant uniuersa?
For so we read: 'He commanded and they were created; He commanded and they were established.'" Fort. said: "Do all things consist by command?"