§413διπλασίαν τὴν ζημίαν ἐκτίνειν κελεύουσι τῶν ἀκόντων βλαψάντων.
...order them to pay double the penalty of those who do harm involuntarily.
ἀρχὴν δὲ οὐδὲ συμβαλεῖν μοι δοκῶ δύνασθαι τί ποτʼ ἔσθʼ ὃ λέγουσι.
And in the first place, I do not think I can even understand what on earth they mean.
καὶ γὰρ ὡς οὐκ ἄκοντες ὑφίενται δοκοῦσί μοι λέγειν, καὶ πάλιν ὡς οὐχ ἑκόντες, ἀλλʼ ἄκοντες ὑφίενται.
For they seem to me to say on the one hand that they do not yield against their will, and on the other hand that they yield not voluntarily, but against their will.
ὅταν μὲν γὰρ εἰς τοὺς ἀκροατὰς ἀναφέρωσι καὶ παρὰ τούτοις εἶναι φῶσι τὴν αἰτίαν, ὥσπερ ἄκοντες ἁμαρτάνειν λέγειν μοι δοκοῦσιν, ὅταν δʼ εἰδέναι μὲν ὡς οὐδὲν χρηστόν ἐσθʼ ὧν λέγουσιν, αἱρεῖσθαι δὲ λέγειν ὑπὲρ τοῦ ψυχαγωγεῖν, ἑκόντες ἁμαρτάνειν ὁμολογεῖν μοι δοκοῦσιν, ὥσπερ οἱ ἐν ταῖς τραγῳδίαις εἰδέναι μὲν φάσκοντες ἃ δράσουσι κατὰ, αὑτῶν δὲ κρατεῖν οὐ δύνασθαι.
For when they refer the blame to the hearers and say that the fault lies with them, they seem to me to say that they err against their will; but when they claim to know that there is nothing good in what they say, yet choose to say it for the sake of entertaining, they seem to me to confess that they err voluntarily, just like those in tragedies who claim to know what evils they are about to commit, but cannot control themselves.
τοιαῦτʼ ἐστὶ τὰ τούτων αἰνίγματα.
Such are their riddles.
καίτοι φησὶ μὲν δή που Κρατίνος τῶν αἰσχρῶν εἶναι φίλοισι χαριζόμενον πονηρὸν αὐτὸν εἶναι· οὗτοι δʼ εἰ μὲν φίλοις αὐτοῖς χρῶνται, παραπλησίως αὐτοῖς ἔχουσιν·
And yet Cratinus indeed says, I suppose, that to please friends so as to become wicked oneself is one of the shameful things; but if these men treat the multitude as their friends, they are in a similar state to them.
ὥστʼ εἰ τοῖς αὐτοῖς χαίρουσιν, αὑτοῖς ἄρʼ οὐχ ἧττον ἢ τούτοις χαρίζονται·
So if they delight in the same things, they please themselves no less than them.
εἰ δʼ αὖ μὴ νομίζουσι φίλους, ἀντὶ τοῦ χαρίζονται;
But if, on the other hand, they do not regard them as friends, in return for what do they please them?
εἴτε γὰρ ὡς ἐρασταῖς εἴθʼ ὡς ἐρασταὶ, τό γε τῆς αἰσχύνης ἄφυκτον. αἰνίττονται δὲ κἀνταῦθα.
For whether as beloveds or as lovers, the shame is inescapable.
φασὶ μὲν γὰρ τοὺς πολλοὺς ἐρᾶν αὑτῶν, φαίνονται δʼ αὐτοὶ τούτων ἐρῶντες, εἴ γʼ ἵνα τούτους ἀρέσωσιν ἀκολασταίνουσι.
And they speak in riddles here too; for they say that the multitude is in love with them, but they themselves appear to be in love with the multitude, if indeed they act dissolutely in order to please them.
καὶ μὴν εἰ μὲν οὐδὲν φροντίζουσιν αὐτῶν, τί μαθόντες φήσουσι χαρίζεσθαι;
And indeed, if they do not care for them at all, what on earth do they mean by saying they please them?
εἰ δὲ φροντίζουσι, πότερον βελτίους ἂν ἦσαν παιδεύοντες καὶ τὴν οὖσαν ὁδὸν τῶν λόγων δεικνύντες, ἢ τῆς τούτων μοχθηρίας αὐτοὶ κληρονομοῦντες;
But if they do care, would they have been better by educating them and showing them the true path of speeches, or by inheriting their worthlessness themselves?
ὥσπερ ἂν εἴ τις ἰατρὸς φάσκων εἶναι καὶ δέον αὐτὸν τοῖς κάμνουσι τὰ βέλτιστα συμβουλεύειν, τοῖς ἐκείνων αὐτὸς ὑπηρετοίη βουλήμασι καὶ τὴν τέχνην ὁρίζοιτο τῷ χαρίζεσθαι.
It is just as if someone claiming to be a physician, whose duty is to advise the sick what is best, should himself serve their wishes and define his art by pleasing.
οὐκοῦν ἀπολεῖς μὲν ἐκείνους, ἀπολεῖ δʼ αὐτὸς ἐν εὖ φρονοῦσι δικασταῖς, ἐπεὶ καὶ ἡ φύσις οὕτως ἔταξε τὸν στρατηγὸν ἡγεῖσθαι τῶν στρατιωτῶν, οὐ τοῖς στρατιώταις §414ἀκολουθεῖν, τὸν κορυφαῖον ὡσαύτως τοῦ χοροῦ, τῶν ναυτῶν τὸν κυβερνήτην, τοῦ ζεύγους τὸν ἡνίοχον, τὸν ἰατρὸν τῶν δεομένων.
Therefore you will destroy them, and you yourself will be destroyed before judges who are in their right mind, since nature also has ordained that the general should lead the soldiers, not follow the soldiers, and likewise the leader of the chorus the chorus, the helmsman the sailors, the charioteer the team of horses, and the physician those who need treatment.
εἶτʼ ἐξὸν αὐτούς τε βελτίους εἶναι καὶ τοὺς συνόντας ὅπως βελτίους ἔσονται παρασκευάζειν, αὐτοί τε χείρους γίγνεσθε κἀκείνους ἔτι φαυλοτέρους ἢ εἰσὶν ἀποφαίνειν προαιρεῖσθε.
Then, when it is possible for you both to be better yourselves and to prepare your companions to be better, you choose to become worse yourselves and to make them even more worthless than they are.
καὶ μὴν τὸ μὲν ὡς πέφυκέ τις καὶ προῄρηται λέγοντα ἀνύτειν ἄγειν ὡς ἀληθῶς ἐστι, τὸ δʼ ἐξίστασθαι τῆς ἰδέας ὑπὲρ τοῦ τι δοκεῖν ἄγεσθαι μᾶλλον ἢ ἄγειν ἐστίν.
Indeed, for one to achieve his purpose by speaking in accordance with his nature and choice is truly to lead; but to depart from one's own character for the sake of seeming to be something is rather to be led than to lead.
ὥστʼ εἰ μὲν οὐκ ἔχεις βελτίω τούτων, ἀμφότερα δυστυχεῖς, καὶ οἷς λέγεις καὶ οἷς οὐ δύνασαι λέγειν, εἰ δʼ ἐξὸν ἐκείνως ἄγειν οὕτω δέχει, πῶς οὐ παρανοεῖς;
So if you do not have anything better than these, you are unfortunate in both ways, both in what you say and in what you cannot say; but if it is possible to lead in that way, yet you accept this, how are you not out of your mind?
ἢ τί σου τὸ καλὸν τῶν λόγων ἐστὶν, ὅστις γε περὶ αὐτῶν τῶν λόγων οὕτω βεβούλευσαι;
Or what is the beauty of your speeches, you who have made such a decision about speeches themselves?
καὶ γὰρ αὖ κἀκεῖνο οὐ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον, οἶμαι, τῷ τε ῥήτορι καὶ φιλοσόφῳ καὶ πᾶσι δὴ τοῖς ἐπὶ τῆς ἐλευθερίου παιδείας προσήκει τέρπειν τοὺς ὄχλους, καὶ τοῖς ἀνδραποδώδεσι τούτοις ὀρχησταῖς, μίμοις, θαυματοποιοῖς.
For indeed, on the other hand, it is not in the same way, I think, that it is fitting for the orator, the philosopher, and indeed all those engaged in liberal education to delight the crowds, and for these slavish dancers, mimes, and jugglers.
ἀλλὰ τούτοις μὲν πολλὴ συγγνώμη καὶ ποιεῖν ὁτιοῦν καὶ λέγειν, ἡμῖν δʼ, εἰ τὰ τούτων κακὰ μιμοίμεθα, πῶς εὐπρεπῶς ἕξει;
But for these latter there is much excuse both to do and to say anything whatsoever, but for us, if we should imitate their vices, how will it be decent?
ὅπου γὰρ οὐδʼ ἐλευθέρᾳ γυναικὶ καὶ ἑταίρᾳ ταὐτὰ δοκεῖ πρέπειν, οὐδʼ ἔτι μᾶλλον ταὐτά γʼ ἀνδράσι καὶ γυναιξὶ, κομιδῆ τοῖς γε ἀνδράσι ταὐτὰ πρέπειν ἅπερ ταῖς ἑταίραις οὐ φήσομεν.
For where it does not seem fitting even for a free woman and a courtesan to do the same things, and still less the same things for men and women, we will certainly not say that the same things are fitting for men as for courtesans.
ὑμεῖς τοίνυν ὅταν εἰς ψαλτρίας τάττησθε καὶ τὰ τῶν Μουσῶν ὄργια χραίνητε ἐν τῷ δημοσίῳ, πότερον φιλοτιμίας δικαίως ἂν ἀμφισβητοίητε, ἢ ζῶντες ἂν κατορύττοισθε Περσιστί;
Therefore, when you rank yourselves with harp-girls and defile the sacred rites of the Muses in public, would you justly claim honor, or would you be buried alive in the Persian fashion?
σκεψώμεθα δὴ καὶ τόδε, ὅτι οὐδὲ οἱ δῆμοι τὰ θεάματα ταῦτα, ὧν μάλιστʼ ἄν τις αὐτοὺς φήσειεν ἡττῆσθαι, παντὶ τῷ θυμῷ φιλοῦσιν οὐδὲ ἀσπάζονται.
Let us consider this too, that not even the multitudes love or welcome with all their heart these spectacles, by which one might say they are most vanquished.
τίς γάρ ἐστιν ὅστις οὐκ ἀξιοῖ βελτίων ὀρχηστοῦ παντὸς αὐτὸς εἶναι;
For who is there who does not think himself better than any dancer?
ἢ τίς ἂν τῷ μίμῳ συγχωρήσειεν ἔξω φθέγγεσθαι;
Or who would allow the mime to speak out of turn?
ἀλλʼ ἐν μὲν τῷ παραχρῆμα γαργαλίζονται, ἀπελθόντες
But for the moment they are tickled, and when they have gone away...