§2.9#2τοῦτο γὰρ παντάπασιν ἔοικεν εἰρῆσθαι προχείρως.
For this seems to be said altogether too hazardously.
ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ τὸ τὴν ἀπὸ τῶν ἀκτίνων θερμότητα φάναι τὴν ἀπολαμβανομένην ἐν τοῖς νέφεσιν εἶναι τούτων αἰτίαν οὐ πιθανόν· καὶ γὰρ οὗτος ὁ λόγος ἀπραγμόνως εἴρηται λίαν·
Similarly, to say that the heat from the rays caught inside the clouds is the cause of these is also not plausible; for this theory too has been stated too carelessly.
ἀποκεκριμένον τε γὰρ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι τὸ αἴτιον ἀεὶ καὶ ὡρισμένον, τό τε τῆς βροντῆς καὶ τῆς ἀστραπῆς καὶ τῶν ἄλλων τῶν τοιούτων, καὶ οὕτω γίγνεσθαι.
For it is necessary that the cause of thunder and lightning and all other such things should always be separate and definite, and that they should occur in this way.
τοῦτο δὲ διαφέρει πλεῖστον· ὅμοιον γὰρ κἂν εἴ τις οἴοιτο τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὴν χιόνα καὶ τὴν χάλαζαν ἐνυπάρχοντα πρότερον ὕστερον ἐκκρίνεσθαι καὶ μὴ γίγνεσθαι, οἷον ὑπὸ χεῖρα ποιούσης ἀεὶ τῆς συγκρίσεως ἕκαστον αὐτῶν·
But this view differs very much from that; for it is just as if one were to think that water, snow, and hail, having existed beforehand, are later squeezed out, and do not come into being, as though condensation did not always produce each of them on the spot.
ὡσαύτως γὰρ ἐκεῖνά τε συγκρίσεις καὶ ταῦτα διακρίσεις ὑποληπτέον εἶναι, ὥστʼ εἰ θάτερα τούτων μὴ γίγνεται ἀλλʼ ἔστι, περὶ ἀμφοτέρων ὁ αὐτὸς ἀρμόσει λόγος.
For we must assume that those are condensations and these are separations in the same way, so that if one of these does not come into being but already exists, the same argument will apply to both of them.
τήν τʼ ἐναπόληψιν τὶ ἂν ἀλλοιότερον λέγοι τις ἢ καθάπερ ἐν τοῖς πυκνοτέροις;
And as for the catching inside, how could anyone speak of it otherwise than as in denser bodies?
καὶ γὰρ τὸ ὕδωρ ὑπὸ τοῦ ἡλίου καὶ τοῦ πυρὸς γίγνεται θερμόν· ἀλλʼ ὅμως ὅταν πάλιν συνίη καὶ ψύχηται τὸ ὕδωρ πηγνύμενον, οὐδεμίαν συμβαίνει γίγνεσθαι τοιαύτην ἔκπτωσιν οἵαν ἐκεῖνοι λέγουσιν.
For water too becomes hot under the sun and fire; but nevertheless, when the water again condenses and cools as it freezes, no such squeezing out occurs as they say.
καίτοι γʼ ἐχρῆν κατὰ λόγον τοῦ μεγέθους τὴν ζέσιν ποιεῖν τὸ ἐγγιγνόμενον πνεῦμα ὑπὸ τοῦ πυρός, ἣν οὔτε δυνατὸν ἐνυπάρχειν πρότερον, οὔτʼ ἐκεῖνοι τὸν ψόρον ζέσιν ποιοῦσιν ἀλλὰ σίξιν· ἔστι δὲ καὶ ἡ σίξις μικρὰ ζέσις· ᾗ γὰρ τὸ προσπῖπτον κρατεῖ σβεννύμενον, ταύτῃ ζέον ποιεῖ τὸν ψόφον.
And yet, the wind produced by the fire ought to have caused a boiling proportional to its size, which boiling could neither have existed beforehand, nor do they make the noise boiling, but rather a hissing; and a hissing is a small boiling; for where that which falls upon it dominates as it is extinguished, there it produces the noise by boiling.
εἰσὶ δέ τινες οἳ τὴν ἀστραπήν, ὥσπερ καὶ Κλείδημος, οὐκ εἶναί φασιν ἀλλὰ φαίνεσθαι, παρεικάζοντες ὡς τὸ πάθος ὅμοιον ὂν καὶ ὅταν τὴν θάλαττάν τις ῥάβδῳ τύπτῃ· φαίνεται γὰρ τὸ ὕδωρ ἀποστίλβον τῆς νυκτός· οὕτως ἐν τῇ νεφέλη ῥαπιζομένου τοῦ ὑγροῦ τὴν φάντασιν τῆς λαμπρότητος εἶναι τὴν ἀστραπήν.
But there are some, like Cleidemus, who say that lightning does not really exist but only appears, comparing the phenomenon to what happens when one strikes the sea with a rod; for the water appears to flash at night; in this way, they say, when the moisture in the cloud is struck, the appearance of brilliance is the lightning.
οὗτοι μὲν οὖν οὔπω συνήθεις ἦσαν ταῖς περὶ τῆς ἀνακλάσεως δόξαις, ὅπερ αἴτιον δοκεῖ τοῦ τοιούτου πάθους εἶναι· φαίνεται γὰρ τὸ ὕδωρ στίλβειν τυπτόμενον ἀνακλωμένης ἀπʼ αὐτοῦ τῆς ὄψεως πρός τι τῶν λαμπρῶν.
These thinkers, then, were not yet acquainted with the theories of reflection, which is believed to be the cause of such a phenomenon; for water appears to flash when struck because sight is reflected from it towards something bright.
διὸ καὶ γίγνεται μᾶλλον τοῦτο νύκτωρ· τῆς γὰρ ἡμέρας οὐ φαίνεται διὰ τὸ πλέον ὂν τὸ φέγγος τὸ τῆς ἡμέρας ἀφανίζειν.
Wherefore this occurs rather at night; for during the day it is not seen because the greater light of day obscures it.
τὰ μὲν οὖν λεγόμενα περὶ βροντῆς τε καὶ ἀστραπῆς παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ταῦτʼ ἐστί, τῶν μὲν ὅτι ἀνάκλασις ἡ ἀστραπή, τῶν δʼ ὅτι πυρὸς μὲν ἡ ἀστραπὴ διάλαμψις, ἡ δὲ βροντὴ σβέσις, οὐκ ἐγγιγνομένου παῤ ἕκαστον πάθος τοῦ πυρὸς ἀλλʼ ἐνυπάρχοντος.
These, then, are the things said about thunder and lightning by others—some saying that lightning is reflection, others that lightning is the flash of fire and thunder its extinguishing, the fire not coming into being on each occasion but existing beforehand.
ἡμεῖς δέ φαμεν τὴν αὐτὴν εἶναι φύσιν ἐπὶ μὲν τῆς γῆς ἄνεμον, ἐν δὲ τῇ γῇ σεισμόν, ἐν δὲ τοῖς νέφεσι βροντήν· πάντα γὰρ εἶναι ταῦτα τὴν οὐσίαν ταὐτόν, ἀναθυμίασιν ξηράν, ἣ ῥέουσα μέν πως ἄνεμός ἐστιν, ὡδὶ δὲ ποιεῖ τοὺς σεισμούς, ἐν δὲ τοῖς νέφεσι μεταβάλλουσα διακρινομένη, συνιόντων καὶ συγκρινομένων αὐτῶν εἰς ὕδωρ, βροντάς τε καὶ ἀστραπὰς καὶ πρὸς τούτοις τἆλλα τὰ τῆς αὐτῆς φύσεως τούτοις ὄντα.
But we say that it is the same nature which is wind on the earth, earthquake in the earth, and thunder in the clouds; for all these are the same in essence, namely, dry exhalation, which when flowing in a certain way is wind, and in this way produces earthquakes, and in the clouds, as they come together and condense into water, by changing and being separated, produces thunder and lightning, and besides these, the other things that are of the same nature as these.
καὶ περὶ μὲν βροντῆς εἴρηται καὶ ἀστραπῆς.
And so, thunder and lightning have been spoken of.