§2.2#2φαίνεται δὲ θαλάττης, ὅτι τὸ μὲν ἁλμυρὸν ὑπομένει διὰ τὸ βάρος, τὸ δὲ γλυκὺ καὶ πότιμον ἀνάγεται διὰ τὴν κουφότητα, καθάπερ ἐν τοῖς τῶν ζῴων σώμασιν.
But it appears to belong to the sea, because the salty part remains behind because of its weight, and the sweet and drinkable part is drawn up because of its lightness, just as in the bodies of animals.
καὶ γὰρ ἐν τούτοις τῆς τροφῆς εἰσελθούσης γλυκείας ἡ τῆς ὑγρᾶς τροφῆς ὑπόστασις καὶ τὸ περίττωμα φαίνεται πικρὸν ὂν καὶ ἁλμυρόν· τὸ γὰρ γλυκὺ καὶ πότιμον ὑπὸ τῆς ἐμφύτου θερμότητος ἑλκυσθὲν εἰς τὰς σάρκας καὶ τὴν ἄλλην σύνταξιν ἦλθεν τῶν μερῶν, ὡς ἕκαστον πέφυκεν.
For indeed in these, after the food has entered sweet, the sediment and excrement of the liquid nourishment appears being bitter and salty; for the sweet and drinkable part, being drawn by the innate heat, goes to the flesh and the other constitution of the parts, as each is naturally disposed.
ὥσπερ οὖν κἀκεῖ ἄτοπον εἶ τις τῆς ποτίμου τροφῆς μὴ νομίζοι τόπον εἶναι τὴν κοιλίαν, ὅτι ταχέως ἀφανίζεται, ἀλλὰ τοῦ περιττώματος, ὅτι τοῦθʼ ὁρᾷ ὑπομένον, οὐκ ἂν ὑπολαμβάνοι καλῶς. ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ ἐν τούτοις·
Just as then there also, if anyone should think that the stomach is not the place of drinkable nourishment because it quickly disappears, but rather of the excrement because he sees this remaining behind, he would not suppose well, so it is also in these cases.
ἔστιν γάρ, ὥσπερ λέγομεν, οὗτος ὁ τόπος ὕδατος· διὸ καὶ οἱ ποταμοὶ ῥέουσιν εἰς αὐτὸν ἅπαντες καὶ πᾶν τὸ γιγνόμενον ὕδωρ· εἴς τε γὰρ τὸ κοιλότατον ἡ ῥύσις.
For this place, as we say, is that of water; wherefore also all the rivers flow into it and all the water that comes to be; for the flow is towards the lowest place.
καὶ ἡ θάλαττα τὸν τοιοῦτον ἐπέχει τῆς γῆς τόπον· ἀλλὰ τὸ μὲν ἀναφέρεται ταχὺ διὰ τὸν ἥλιον ἅπαν, τὸ δʼ ὑπολείπεται διὰ τὴν εἰρημένην αἰτίαν.
And the sea occupies such a place of the earth; but part of it is drawn up quickly and entirely because of the sun, while the other remains behind because of the aforementioned cause.
τὸ δὲ ζητεῖν τὴν ἀρχαίαν ἀπορίαν, διὰ τὶ τοσοῦτον πλῆθος ὕδατος οὐδαμοῦ φαίνεται (καθʼ ἑκάστην γὰρ ἡμέραν ποταμῶν ῥεόντων ἀναρίθμων καὶ τὸ μέγεθος ἀπλέτων οὐδὲν ἡ θάλαττα γίγνεται πλείων), τοῦτο οὐδὲν μὲν ἄτοπον ἀπορῆσαί τινας, οὐ μὴν ἐπιβλέψαντά γε χαλεπὸν ἰδεῖν.
But to investigate the ancient difficulty, why on earth such a magnitude of water is nowhere visible (for though countless rivers of immense size flow into it every day, the sea becomes no larger), this is indeed not absurd for some to doubt, yet for one who has looked into it, it is not hard to see.
τὸ γὰρ αὐτὸ πλῆθος ὕδατος εἰς πλάτος τε διαταθὲν καὶ ἀθρόον οὐκ ἐν ἴσῳ χρόνῳ ἀναξηραίνεται, ἀλλὰ διαφέρει τοσοῦτον ὥστε τὸ μὲν διαμεῖναι ἂν ὅλην τὴν ἡμέραν, τὸ δʼ ὥσπερ εἴ τις ἐπὶ τράπεζαν μεγάλην περιτείνειεν ὕδατος κύαθον, ἅμα διανοουμένοις ἄν ἀφανισθείη πᾶν.
For the same quantity of water spread out in breadth and gathered together does not dry up in an equal time, but differs so much that while one might remain the whole day, the other—just as if one should spread a cup of water over a large table—would disappear entirely as we are thinking of it.
ὃ δὴ καὶ περὶ τοὺς ποταμοὺς συμβαίνει· συνεχῶς γὰρ ῥεόντων ἀθρόων ἀεὶ τὸ ἀφικνούμενον εἰς ἀχανῇ καὶ πλατὺν τόπον ἀναξηραίνεται ταχὺ καὶ ἀδήλως.
Which indeed is also what happens concerning the rivers; for though they flow continuously and gathered together, that which arrives into a vast and broad place always dries up quickly and unnoticed.
τὸ δʼ ἐν τῷ Φαίδωνι γεγραμμένον περί τε τῶν ποταμῶν καὶ τῆς θαλάττης ἀδύνατόν ἐστιν.
But that which is written in the *Phaedo* concerning both the rivers and the sea is impossible.
λέγεται γὰρ ὡς ἅπαντα μὲν εἰς ἄλληλα συντέτρηται ὑπὸ γῆν, ἀρχὴ δὲ πάντων εἴη καὶ πηγὴ τῶν ὑδάτων ὁ καλούμενος Τάρταρος, περὶ τὸ μέσον ὕδατός τι πλῆθος, ἐξ οὗ καὶ τὰ ῥἐοντα καὶ τὰ μὴ ῥέοντα ἀναδίδωσιν πάντα· τὴν δʼ ἐπίρρυσιν ποιεῖν ἐφʼ ἕκαστα τῶν ῥευμάτων διὰ τὸ σαλεύειν ἀεὶ τὸ πρῶτον καὶ τὴν ἀρχήν· οὐκ ἔχειν γὰρ ἕδραν, ἀλλʼ ἀεὶ περὶ τὸ μέσον εἰλεῖσθαι· κινούμενον δʼ ἄνω καὶ κάτω ποιεῖν τὴν ἐπίχυσιν τοῖς ῥεύμασιν.
For it is said that all things are perforated into one another under the earth, and that the principle and source of all waters would be what is called Tartarus, a certain magnitude of water about the center, from which indeed all things, both those that flow and those that do not, are given back; and that it makes the influx to each of the streams because the first principle and origin is always shaking; for it has no seat, but is always rolled about the center; and moving up and down it makes the flooding to the streams.
τὰ δὲ πολλαχοῦ μὲν λιμνάζειν, οἷον καὶ τὴν παρʼ ἡμῖν εἶναι θάλατταν, πάντα δὲ πάλιν κύκλῳ περιάγειν εἰς τὴν ἀρχήν, ὅθεν ἤρξαντο ῥεῖν, πολλὰ μὲν κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τόπον, τὰ δὲ καὶ καταντικρὺ τῇ θέσει τῆς ἐκροῆς, οἶον εἰ ῥεῖν ἤρξαντο κάτωθεν, ἄνωθεν εἰσβάλλειν.
And that they form lakes in many places, such as indeed is our sea, but all of them are carried back again in a circle to the principle from which they began to flow, many indeed on the same side, but some also on the side opposite to the position of their outflow—as for instance, if they began to flow from below, they discharge from above.
εἶναι δὲ μέχρι τοῦ μέσου τὴν κάθεσιν· τὸ γὰρ λοιπὸν πρὸς ἄναντες ἤδη πᾶσιν εἶναι τὴν φοράν.
And that the descent is as far as the center; for that the remaining transport is already uphill for all of them.
τοὺς δὲ χυμοὺς καὶ τὰς χρόας ἴσχειν τὸ ὕδωρ διʼ οἵας ἄν τύχωσι ῥέοντα γῆς.
And that the water holds its tastes and colors according to what kind of earth they happen to flow through.
συμβαίνει δὲ τοὺς ποταμοὺς ῥεῖν οὐκ ἐπὶ ταὐτὸν ἀεὶ κατὰ τὸν λόγον τοῦτον· ἐπεὶ γὰρ εἰς τὸ μέσον εἰσρέουσιν ἀφʼ οὗπερ ἐκρέουσιν, οὐδὲν μᾶλλον ῥευσοῦνται κάτωθεν ἢ ἄνωθεν, ἀλλʼ ἐφʼ ὁπότερ’ ἄν ῥέψη κυμαίνων ὁ Τάρταρος.
But it happens that the rivers do not always flow to the same place according to this argument; for since they flow into the center from which they flow out, they will flow no more from below than from above, but rather towards whichever way the waving Tartarus inclines.
καίτοι τούτου συμβαίνοντος γένοιτʼ ἂν τὸ λεγόμενον ἄνω ποταμῶν· ὅπερ ἀδύνατον.
And yet if this happens, that which is said about "rivers flowing upwards" would come to be; which is impossible.
ἔτι τὸ γιγνόμενον ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ πάλιν ἀναγόμενον πόθεν ἔσται;
Furthermore, from where will the water that comes to be and that which is drawn up again exist?
τοῦτο γὰρ ἐξαίρειν ὅλον ἀναγκαῖον, εἴπερ ἀεὶ σῴζεται τὸ ἴσον· ὅσον γὰρ ἔξω ῥεῖ, πάλιν ῥεῖ πρὸς τὴν ἀρχήν.
For it is necessary to remove this entirely, if indeed the equal quantity is always preserved; for as much as flows out, flows back again to the principle.
καίτοι πάντες οἱ ποταμοὶ φαίνονται τελευτῶντες εἰς τὴν θάλατταν, ὅσοι μὴ εἰς ἀλλήλους· εἰς δὲ γῆν οὐδείς, ἀλλὰ κἂν ἀφανισθῇ, πάλιν ἀναδύνουσιν.
And yet all rivers appear ending in the sea, except those that flow into one another; but none into the earth, but even if they disappear, they rise up again.
μεγάλοι δὲ γίγνονται τῶν ποταμῶν οἱ μακρὰν ῥέοντες διὰ κοίλης· πολλῶν γὰρ δέχονται ῥεύματα ποταμῶν, ὑποτεμνόμενοι τῷ τόπῳ καὶ τῷ μήκει τὰς ὁδοὺς· διόπερ ὅ τʼ Ἴστρος καὶ ὁ Νεῖλος μέγιστοι τῶν ποταμῶν εἰσιν τῶν εἰς τήνδε τὴν θάλατταν ἐξιόντων.
And those of the rivers become great which flow far through a hollow; for they receive the streams of many rivers, cutting off their paths by their place and length; wherefore both the Ister and the Nile are the greatest of the rivers that discharge into this sea.
καὶ περὶ τῶν πηγῶν ἄλλοι λέγουσιν ἑκάστου τῶν ποταμῶν ἄλλας αἰτίας διὰ τὸ πολλοὺς εἰς τὸν αὐτὸν ἐμβάλλειν.
And concerning the sources, others speak of other causes for each of the rivers, because many empty into the same one.
ταῦτα δὴ πάντα φανερὸν ὡς ἀδύνατόν ἐστι συμβαίνειν ἄλλως τε καὶ τῆς θαλάττης ἐκεῖθεν τὴν ἀρχὴν ἐχούσης.
That all these things indeed are impossible to happen is clear, especially since the sea has its principle from there.
ὅτι μὲν οὖν ὕδατός τε ὁ τόπος ἐστὶν οὗτος καὶ οὐ θαλάττης, καὶ διὰ τίνʼ αἰτίαν τὸ μὲν πότιμον ἄδηλον πλὴν ῥέον, τὸ δʼ ὑπομένον, καὶ διότι τελευτὴ μᾶλλον ὕδατος ἢ ἀρχή ἐστιν ἡ θάλαττα, καθάπερ τὸ ἐν τοῖς σώμασιν περίττωμα τῆς τροφῆς πάσης, καὶ μάλιστα τὸ τῆς ὑγρᾶς, εἰρήσθω τοσαῦθʼ ἡμῖν.
That this place indeed is of water and not of the sea, and for what cause the drinkable part is invisible except when flowing, while the other remains behind, and because the sea is rather the end of water than its principle, just as the excrement of all nourishment in bodies, and especially that of the liquid, let so much be said by us.